# Is this a scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177 "2006-04-11T02:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/1 "2006-04-11T02:36:56Z")
I manage a short-term rental property that we own. All marketing and collections are handled by another company but we are the ones always in contact with our guests. A few days ago I received an email from somebody wishing to make a reservation, for which he would have to pay a booking fee. Unlike every other guest we ever had this one says he can’t pay by credit card but would send us a cheque. I reply to him that until the cheque has been cleared by the bank (or rather our collection/marketing company’s bank) we will continue to offer the apartment during those days. If we receive another booking fee for those days while the cheque is in transit we will return the cheque to him at his expense. We also encouraged him to pay by CC to make life easier for both of us. The guy says that he is American, that he is not coming personally but his company is seeking accommodation for “two models”. The thing is that his English is atrocious. No, scratch that, it is more than atrocious. I can barely understand what he is saying, only that he keeps mentioning that they are models (I don’t care about that). Today I got this email from him. And if any of you speak gibberish, and would be so nice to translate to English -or Spanish if you can 😉 - I would really appreciate it. I don’t want to jump to any conclusions but Mr. Duncan here doesn’t sound American and his proposal sounds a little “dodgy” to say the least. > [@](#): > > hello > Thanks for your humble unity with me over these rent deal, i am really excited to share transaction with you.I just want to inform u that the cashier cheque as been sent to your address yesterday ok. so kindly assist me to maintain the vacance for my models because there were really excited when i told them i have found a place for them, so pls try all means not to dissapoint me ok. > > There is a favour which might seems like a stress but i will be totally glad if u can assure me of your trust and honesty over these favour, the favoured is that my client called me today about the payment he said the the payment was over draft so i don;t know if i can still keep my trust on you over the balance fund that is involved after your rent cost, due to the overpayment i think my models suggest that the balance fund will be immediately used to pay for there flight expenses to your place since u are the person involved with the rent ok. > > So pls i want u to reply me if i can still trust on you over the excess fund after your rent cost ok.if so then i will send u immediately the address where u will send the balance too once u receive the cheque ok. > > hope to hear from you soonest. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/2 "2006-04-11T02:40:08Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > What do you think? Absolutely a scam. He’s going to send you a forged cheque for more than the amount due. You’re going to send him the “change”. The cheque is going to bounce, he’s going to dissapear with the “overage” you sent him, and you’re liable for the full amount of the cheque. Don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/3 "2006-04-11T02:45:41Z")
From this [website](http://banking.about.com/od/securityandsafety/a/cashierscheckfd.htm): > [@](#): > > The most common cashier’s check fraud has the same ingredients. A buyer wants to purchase a product and will use a cashier’s check. For whatever reason, the buyer has a check made out for an amount in excess of the purchase price. Then, the buyer wants the seller to accept the full amount and send the extra money (either back to the buyer or to a third party). > [@](#): > > The trick of the cashier’s check fraud is that the payee’s bank credits the seller’s account before the funds have actually arrived from the paying bank. Therefore, it looks like the funds have cleared and everything is OK. If you’re not sure what the difference is between seeing the dollars credited and actually having the dollars, visit your bank and ask. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/4 "2006-04-11T02:49:55Z")
Yes, it is a scam: [See Here](http://www.fraudaid.com/Scamspeak/Nigerian/counterfeit_check_fraud/counterfeit_check_03.htm). The trick is not simply that the check will bounce. Under the banking laws, when you deposit a certified or cashier’s check, the bank must credit your account the next business day. However, with a scam check, it takes several days at least for a forged cashier’s to be rejected by the bank it is supposedly drawn on. At that point, your account will be debited for the amount of the fraudulent check. The scam is that you deposit the check for the excess amount, and once the cashier’s check supposedly clears, you pay them the overage. When the forged check bounces, you’re debited for the full amount. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/5 "2006-04-11T02:51:01Z")
See **Larry Mudd** ’s Post #19 in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=360919&highlight=rent+scam) for a discussion of a similar scam – the con “artist” even attempted to pose as a “too good to be true” fashion model. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/6 "2006-04-11T03:10:28Z")
I think even someone with broken English will understand “not until the check clears.” Better yet, just tell him you’ll happily refund any unspent balance after the models have finished their visit. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/7 "2006-04-11T03:16:54Z")
It is _absolutely_ a scam. Don’t even _try_ to check if it’s real. (On preview, ignore what **kunilou** suggests.) I’ve heard stories of people told to be suspicious going to their bank and asking “This is cleared? It’s absolutely fine? The money is here? There’s no possible problem?” and hear yes, fine, yep, teriffic, and then be surprised when the cheque turns out to be fake/forged weeks or months later and they’re out however many thousand. Frame it and rejoice that you were invited to be part of an international fraud scheme, and ignore the schmuck. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/8 "2006-04-11T03:21:26Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > ignore what **kunilou** suggests. Well, except for the part about the models. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/9 "2006-04-11T03:23:17Z")
Anytime you have to ask yourself “Is this a scam?”, it’s a scam. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/10 "2006-04-11T03:39:02Z")
It’s a scam. We’re starting to get them in response to our rental ads. I’m actually beginning to have fun answering the emails. One fellow this morning, sent three stupid enquiries, and a complicated way he’d pay for the rental accomodation, ending up with a suggestion that we send “excess funds to my daughter’s travel agency in africa so he can pay for return ticket”. Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/11 "2006-04-11T04:08:33Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > The guy says that he is American…The thing is that his English is atrocious. No, scratch that, it is more than atrocious. His English is laughable (“Thanks for your humble unity…” - where do people come up with this crap?) and absolutely not American. Any American over five years old could immediately detect that this is not how Americans speak or write. The fellow’s not too bright either. It doesn’t take much study to find that the American spelling of “favour” is “favor.” > [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I don’t want to jump to any conclusions but Mr. Duncan here doesn’t sound American and his proposal sounds a little “dodgy” to say the least. Congratulations on your sense of fairness. In this case, even more congratulations on your sense of suspicion - dead right on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/12 "2006-04-11T04:21:23Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I think even someone with broken English will understand “not until the check clears.” > > Better yet, just tell him you’ll happily refund any unspent balance after the models have finished their visit. Never, NEVER, try to outcon an con, you will lose! Just say NO! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/13 "2006-04-11T04:28:55Z")
[Or you might try having some fun.](http://www.ebolamonkeyman.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/14 "2006-04-11T04:49:56Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > His English is laughable (“Thanks for your humble unity…” - where do people come up with this crap?) and absolutely not American. Any American over five years old could immediately detect that this is not how Americans speak or write. > > The fellow’s not too bright either. It doesn’t take much study to find that the American spelling of “favour” is “favor.” > > Congratulations on your sense of fairness. In this case, even more congratulations on your sense of suspicion - dead right on both counts. Heck, I am not American and I knew he didn’t sound American – or from any other English-speaking country for that matter – but after having been indoctrinated for years in the Holy Church of Customer Service I cannot bring myself to making fun of a (potential) customer, at least not in public. And even though my Bulshit Sensor [sup]TM[/sup] was beeping loudly since the initial contact, I was willing to cut the guy some slack; after all I am but an honorary member of the Grammar Gestapo (English is my second language). Anyways, even before I got the first reply here I decided it was just too weird and I don’t need the money that much. This is my last email to him: > [@](#): > > Mr. Duncan, > > Upon consultation with our bank we regret to inform you that it will not be possible for us to take your payment in cheque. We are sorry for the inconvenience and hope that you find the way to make your payment with credit card. > > Thanks for your interest in our rental property. > > Regards, > MG Notice that if there is a remote possibility that the guy is legit I still managed not to insult him, which is really what I would have liked to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/15 "2006-04-11T04:56:49Z")
And I want to add that this thread alone is worth more than the US$8.00 (or whatever) I paid for this year’s membership. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/16 "2006-04-11T05:04:47Z")
God, this thread has me so worried. I just had something similar happen, and I sent all this money to Nigeria and… Nah, I shouldn’t think like that. It’s going to be fine. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/17 "2006-04-11T19:37:37Z")
Update: “Mr. Duncan” has agreed to making his payment via CC. I will see where this lead. I’ll keep you posted. FWIW, I still think he’s not quite who he says he is. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/18 "2006-04-11T19:47:16Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Update: > > “Mr. Duncan” has agreed to making his payment via CC. I will see where this lead. I’ll keep you posted. > > FWIW, I still think he’s not quite who he says he is. Watch out for the same deal with this. I’ve heard of them using stolen credit card numbers over the phone, transaction goes through, victim ships product to Nigeria, bank calls and says “oops, sorry, transaction was done on a stolen card” and victim is now out his product. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/19 "2006-04-11T19:49:43Z")
I bet his next move is to ask you to put more $$ on the credit card than the actual cost of the rental and have you return the excess to god-knows-who; or the card is fake or stolen and somehow he’ll get his money back while you, the merchant, get screwed somehow. Nobody who write like that yet claims to be American is telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177/20 "2006-04-11T20:00:24Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I think even someone with broken English will understand “not until the check clears.” The problem is, and the reason these scams can be successful, is that even _after_ a cheque (or international money order or whatever) has cleared, it can still subsequently be identified as fraudulent, and the payee held liable for the amount credited. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-scam/352177.md?page=2)