# Is this a setup for the BIGGEST slap in the face in basketball history? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574 "2004-07-11T16:33:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/21 "2004-07-12T23:27:21Z")
Once again. Kobe is a free agent. Dump him and you get jack shit. Shaq has two years left on his contract. You can trade him for some fine players. Everyone agrees that Shaq is a mensch and Kobe is a dickhead. You still have to keep Kobe given that it’s one or the other. I’d rather have Shaq as my business partner or my neighbor or my son-in-law. I’d rather have Kobe on my basketball team. Haj ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/22 "2004-07-12T23:49:57Z")
I think it would be in the Lakers best interests to dump the fuckers and start all over with a solid team based on 12 people who play a fundementally sound game. Passing, defense, free throws, teamwork, all the bullshit buzzwords. Rudy T could give that to them in just a couple of seasons. But, no one wants to rebuild any more. It all has to happen NOW! THIS SEASON! Bunch of stupids… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/23 "2004-07-12T23:56:43Z")
> [@Jimmy Chitwood](#): > > Well, if you knock VC out of there, because I think he’s had his better days, I think I tend to agree with you. The thing is, you can’t really know that yet, because unlike McGrady or Iverson, Kobe’s never been that guy. AI and T-Mac were taking every shot they wanted to take through their entire career, and you wondered if they could fit into a championship team dynamic. Kobe’s the opposite- he’s already done that, now we find out if he can do it solo. If I had to bet, I think he’ll have more of an Iverson career than a T-Mac up to this point. I think the Lakers will fit in pieces around him once they get some flexibility, and at some point the Lakers will be a very good team again. It’s definitely a gamble, as nuts as Kobe was on the court all year, but if I’m the Lakers I look at what he used to be just a couple years ago, and the fact that he’s still just 26, and I lock him up. Yeah, I’m with you here. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/24 "2004-07-13T00:27:31Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Prince did a nice job of shutting him down, because all finals he was relegated to 3 on 1 circus shots. He was out of rhythm the entire series. Of course he was. The refs let any Piston within five feet of a Laker do whatever they want - hold jerseys, knock people to the floor, all kinds of stuff with nary a call. > [@](#): > > I think his attitude is poison, and his nutty demands will prevent the neccessary role players to be put in place. Yeah, I agree. As someone in the LA Times pointed out - I sometimes thought Shaq didn’t care enough to go all out in a game, but at least I never thought he deliberately threw one. I don’t see Kobe’s attitude preventing the necessary role players to be put in place - it’s the fact that Mitch Kupchak evaluates talent about as well as my ass. It’s freaking embarrassing. [/quote] He’s no better then Vince Carter, Tracy, or Iverson, a bunch of 30 ppg players on nobody teams. [/QUOTE] You’re wrong here. He’s much better than Carter, first off. Although I’m sure Carter’s got a note from his gynecologist excusing him from playing with any sort of tenacity inside. McGrady’s good, but he slacks off too much - especially on defense. > [@Mullinator](#): > > You might think you could put Brian Grant in there since he played center in the East, but that doesn’t work in the bigger and more talented West. Really? Outside of Yao, which great centers are you talking about in the West? Rasho Nesterovic? Michael Olowokandi? Shawn Bradley? Calvin Booth? No, what’s going to hold Brian Grant back is his bad back. Look, I’m not thrilled about this. Hopefully they can make a few other moves after this because they’re going to need more size. When is Grant’s contract up? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/25 "2004-07-13T01:02:19Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Look, I’m not thrilled about this. Hopefully they can make a few other moves after this because they’re going to need more size. and > [@](#): > > When is Grant’s contract up? > [@](#): > > According to the Times, Odom is due to make $9 million next season, Grant $13.2 million and Butler $1.9 million. Odom’s contract runs through the 2007-08 season, Grant’s through 2005-06. If Bryant re-signs, and Odom and Grant are on the roster, then the Lakers will have little chance of obtaining a high-level free agent in the near future. [http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:67qQSh4V8Q4J:www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5397513/+brian+grant+heat+contract+expires&hl=en](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:67qQSh4V8Q4J:www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5397513/+brian+grant+heat+contract+expires&hl=en) ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/26 "2004-07-13T01:16:23Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Of course he was. The refs let any Piston within five feet of a Laker do whatever they want - hold jerseys, knock people to the floor, all kinds of stuff with nary a call. Yeah, they gave Ben Wallace the calls … the sort of calls Shaq’s gotten every damn game for the last ten years. How’s the phrase go? Something about “if it’s good for the goose, then the gander gets to bend the goose over a table and make the goose his prison bitch in five games.” Yeah, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/27 "2004-07-13T01:37:41Z")
OMG, **furt**! That was so fuckin’ poetic! Can I use that as a sig? Please? **Neurotik** , gimme a break. This last season was the first time in years I’ve seen anyone call Shaq on his three second violations. The man damn near sets up a tent in the paint every possession. **NCB** , I think that’s probably the best idea anyone’s come up with so far. But i don’t see it happening, more’s the pity. They have some strong young talent, but I doubt they’ll develop it. More likely trade them away over the next couple seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/28 "2004-07-13T01:50:41Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Yeah, they gave Ben Wallace the calls … the sort of calls Shaq’s gotten every damn game for the last ten years. I’m not talking about Ben Wallace, actually. I’m talking about pretty much every other Piston - especially Rasheed. As for Shaq. Give me a break. He doesn’t do anything any other player doesn’t do. Ever watch Chris Webber in the post against a smaller opponent? Watch him slam his shoulder into the defender and knock him down before making his spin move to the basket. Happens every time. > [@Maureen](#): > > Neurotik, gimme a break. This last season was the first time in years I’ve seen anyone call Shaq on his three second violations. The man damn near sets up a tent in the paint every possession. Obviously you don’t watch basketball very much since I’ve seen that get called against Shaq regularly for the past 5 years. Especially in the past 3. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/29 "2004-07-13T02:00:35Z")
Is it too late to bring back Mark Madsen? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/30 "2004-07-13T02:34:20Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I’m not talking about Ben Wallace, actually. I’m talking about pretty much every other Piston - especially Rasheed. Errr you mean the guy that spent most of the series planted on his ass becuase of foul trouble? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/31 "2004-07-13T02:46:45Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Errr you mean the guy that spent most of the series planted on his ass becuase of foul trouble? Yes. I’m also talking about the guy who knocked Malone and George to the ground several times with nary a call. Frankly, he should have played about half as much as he did if they refs didn’t turn a blind eye to a couple of ridiculously flagrant fouls on his part (not “flagrant fouls” in terms of the NBA rule book term, just fouls that were pretty obvious and flagrant). Here’s Bill Simmons’ take: > [@](#): > > As you know, the officiating was curiously one-sided in the Finals. It reached the point where ABC was afraid to show replays – like when Rasheed delivered a flying forearm to Devean George in Game 5, sent him flying out of bounds, drew a prolonged whistle from the referee … and play was mysteriously allowed to continue. What the heck happened there? Thank God for TiVo. And have you ever seen a team set more moving picks in a single series? And it’s not like he’s particularly pro-Lakers. Incidentally, he calls for the Lakers to pull a sign and trade with Kobe somewhere and to keep Shaq. A little late, but I couldn’t agree more with him. There’s several players that at least come somewhat close to Kobe’s abilities. There’s nobody close to what Shaq does. Milk the next two or three years of usefulness out of him and then let him go. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574/32 "2004-07-13T02:56:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes. I’m also talking about the guy who knocked Malone and George to the ground several times with nary a call. Frankly, he should have played about half as much as he did if they refs didn’t turn a blind eye to a couple of ridiculously flagrant fouls on his part (not “flagrant fouls” in terms of the NBA rule book term, just fouls that were pretty obvious and flagrant). I’ll be honest with you I don’t remember anything that flagrant done by Wallace in the finals. I do distinctly rememeber a few times when Big Ben jumped about 4 feet foward going for a rebound with the assistance of Shaq. But thats the way basketball games go I don’t think the calls were too skewed either way the reason the Pistons went to the line more was that they drove to the basket more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-setup-for-the-biggest-slap-in-the-face-in-basketball-history/254574.md?page=1)