# Is this a solution to the Kobyashi Maru test? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, movies, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [January 17, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233 "2024-01-17T17:53:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/41 "2024-01-18T16:43:19Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Somebody back then didn’t know their Klingons from their Romulans. I blame Nicholas Meyer. ⁢ IIRC, they were going to use Romulans originally, but Meyer changed it to Klingons because he thought they worked better on film. And so a lot of stuff that was originally drafted for the Romulans got to the Klingons. I can’t be too mad, as it did ultimately result in the change in the Klingons that makes them more interesting. Having them feature in the movies meant Worf became a thing in TNG, and started the whole honor culture thing instead of them just being mustache twirling villains. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/42 "2024-01-18T16:45:32Z")
> [@f.coli](#): > > In fact, the Klingons and the Federation had a peace treaty between them, imposed by the Organians in “Errand of Mercy”. I’ve always thought that the neutral zone was imposed by the Organians in that episode, but I last saw that episode in the previous millennium so I’m probably mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/43 "2024-01-18T16:48:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > IIRC, they were going to use Romulans originally, but Meyer changed it to Klingons because he thought they worked better on film. And so a lot of stuff that was originally drafted for the Romulans got to the Klingons. Not in Wrath O’Khan. The only Klingons were in that KM test scene, and only in dialog. Now in Undiscovered Country, yeah, that could be true. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/44 "2024-01-18T16:52:43Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I’ve always thought that the neutral zone was imposed by the Organians in that episode, but I last saw that episode in the previous millennium so I’m probably mistaken. Nope, the Klingons still had access to everywhere. As seen in A Private Little War, Trouble With Tribbles, Day of the Dove, etc. They just couldn’t fight the Feds. It was never stated, but one assumes they could still fight others, and manage their “slave worlds” (which TNG forgot). By Yesterday’s Enterprise alternate timeline, I guess the Organians were taking a nap. Or the writers forgot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/45 "2024-01-18T17:03:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It was never stated, but one assumes they could still fight others, and manage their “slave worlds” (which TNG forgot). By Yesterday’s Enterprise alternate timeline, I guess the Organians were taking a nap. Or the writers forgot. ⁢ Or something happened to them. Sure, they assumed they would be around for a long time, but maybe they weren’t. Or maybe they were still there, but had bluffed about the extent of their powers. IIRC, we only see them using their powers within their own solar system. Personally, a galaxy with some near-omnipotent entity forcing peace on everyone seems less interesting from a story perspective. You want at least the potential for conflict. Having there be normal treaties still gets you the tension where enemies don’t immediately attack, but also makes it possible the treaty could break down. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/46 "2024-01-18T17:16:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Personally, a galaxy with some near-omnipotent entity forcing peace on everyone seems less interesting from a story perspective. You want at least the potential for conflict. But conflict on what scale? Every side has weapons that could devastate entire planets, and everyone knows that. So there’s the MAD thing to contend with. Any small conflict could balloon into a war that wipes out everyone, and since no one wants that, they avoid even skirmishes. But with the Big Entity guys forbidding all-out war, everyone knows that no one will pull the trigger on all-out war just because a couple of captains butted heads somewhere on the Outer Rim. So we can have nice photogenic conflicts, without worrying about the Galaxy at large. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/47 "2024-01-18T17:38:11Z")
Yeah. Leave the major Home Planets out of it and it’ll just be business as usual; extracting a piece of the action of dem udder guys. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/48 "2024-01-18T17:46:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The test is about a potential captain handles a no win situation. Or is the test really about how they react to being told it was a no-win test? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/49 "2024-01-18T17:53:20Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Or is the test really about how they react to being told it was a no-win test? I’m with Kirk I don’t believe in the no-win scenario. Because, what defines the “win”? If you become a super messiah, cause the galaxy to go into a long war with mass casualties, but later peace reigns for, effectively, ever, is that a win? For humanity, yes, but not for the billions that died. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/50 "2024-01-18T17:58:16Z")
In my head canon….long destroyed by the idiocy of STD and to an extent SNW……the Romulans traded the Klingons cloaking tech for shiny powerful warp-capable vessels. So what we see in Search for Spock is the result of that. A cloak-capable vessel called a Klingon Bird of Prey. The dumbest thing about the Kobayashi Maru is……using command line, senior citizens as actors, throwing themselves everywhere while sparks fly into their faces. And Klingons don’t take prisoners? The fuck is Rura Penthe?? Side note: Deanna’s Command Test where she has to send Geordi to his death…I wonder if she would have broken the simulation if she had sent Data instead. “Oooops we didn’t take into account the test taker had a one….two….five of a kind android on standby” ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/51 "2024-01-18T18:05:49Z")
Best answer is they were Q’s trying things a little differently….a couple with a penchant for drama who just wanted to see how long peace would last with the (fake) threat of weapon neutralization hanging over their heads Narrator: “not long” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/52 "2024-01-18T19:13:21Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > But with the Big Entity guys forbidding all-out war, everyone knows that no one will pull the trigger on all-out war just because a couple of captains butted heads somewhere on the Outer Rim. So we can have nice photogenic conflicts, without worrying about the Galaxy at large. ⁢ Sure, you can. But you lose a lot. No DS9. No Borg or Dominion. No Cardassian threat, Bajoran occupation, or Maquis. No war allegories that involve the actual crew. It works okay for the remainder of TOS, but I don’t think it works well for the rest of the series. (It could in theory work for TAS, but they threw in the Kzinti.) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/53 "2024-01-18T19:34:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > but they threw in the Kzinti. And there was no reason to! They could have substituted Klingons for the Kzin and no one would have cared! Now the historical timeline has _another_ enemy, with a series of wars against humanity, that no one heard of before, or since. (if you take TAS as canon.) They already dropped the never-before-seen tech of deep radar to find stasis boxes, what’s one more change? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/54 "2024-01-18T19:39:45Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > how long peace would last with the (fake) threat of weapon neutralization hanging over their heads It wasn’t fake, not really, and it extended beyond their own planet. They could have imposed it if they wanted. In series fanwank: the Organians just didn’t care to be bothered. they had better things to do. One day a particularly aggressive Klingon said “it is a good day to die!” and fired on a Fed vessel and nothing happened. Real world answer: a series without conflict can be boring. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/55 "2024-01-18T20:44:24Z")
In my theory its the Q posing as Organians. And as part of the experiment the threat is fake. They just wanted to see how long peace would last before as you say “someone said ‘its a good day to die’” and nothing happened ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/56 "2024-01-18T22:25:34Z")
I enjoyed the novel mentioned in post 5. To me, the risk of interstellar war by violating the Neutral Zone (plus the distress call could be a trap) outweighs the humanity of an immediate rescue. I would contact Star Fleet to get permission to enter the Zone and also ask the freighter crew how they finished up in the Zone. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/57 "2024-01-18T22:47:05Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I would contact Star Fleet to get permission to enter the Zone and also ask the freighter crew how they finished up in the Zone. “It was a bet! I won three bottles of Andorian ale!” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/58 "2024-01-19T01:53:25Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I would contact Star Fleet to get permission to enter the Zone and also ask the freighter crew how they finished up in the > > > Blockquote > > Zone. IIRC the Kobyashi Maru reports having engine trouble and drifting into the Neutral Zone. IOW, they weren’t there intentionally. One could also argue the fact that KM is in the zone is already a treaty violation, though I suppose an argument could be made there is a difference been a freighter and a Starship. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/59 "2024-01-19T02:23:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Fire long range photon torpedoes at the _Kobayashi Maru_, destroying it and removing the motive for mutiny. Blame the Klingons, use the political fallout to extract concessions from the Klingons. Gain the Klingons’ respect for such a ruthless but effective strategy, become a naturalized Klingon and run for high office. Destroy the Klingon Empire from within. I came to post a variant on this: - open fire on _Kobayashi Maru_ - lay in course for Raisa No trap. No mutiny. I like yours better, though ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233/60 "2024-01-20T04:34:13Z")
By the way…Im thinking of starting a thread of how FUCKED most of the planets Kirk visited are based on the notion “No species can survive contact with a more technologically advanced species”. I can’t find that quote online but I think it came from Joe Haldeman’s novella “Seasons” With all the robot-destroying and monologuing, countless planets are screwed thanks to Kirk’s moralizing. Such a thread’s OP would be very long though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-solution-to-the-kobyashi-maru-test/996233.md?page=4)