# Is this a victory for Bullies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614 "2012-07-27T22:12:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/21 "2012-07-28T16:03:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … I don’t fault the girl for the surgery, but the message this group is sending is really stupid. Presumably you mean the charity that funded this? If so, I agree. Besides which, I’m always suspicious of people or companies that form charities to essentially pay themselves to provide products or services that their recipients can’t otherwise afford, and of course promote their business through the PR they get for their charity. To me, that’s not charity, it’s advertising by other means. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/22 "2012-07-28T16:18:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Presumably you mean the charity that funded this? Yes. Ultimately I expect the Baby Face Foundation only exists to promote cosmetic surgery through charity. Which they are within their rights to do and blah blah blah, but yes, this sends the wrong message and it makes the claim of “we’re helping kids!” for promotional reasons while failing to address bullying in any meaningful way. [http://www.littlebabyface.org/who.html](http://www.littlebabyface.org/who.html) > [@](#): > > The surgeons and industry professionals who created the Little Baby Face Foundation collectively represent more than 50 years of expertise in children’s plastic surgery. As Advisory Board members, they assist in evaluating potential Little Baby Face patients, offer medical opinions, participate in fundraising, and support the organization in its vision and operations. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/23 "2012-07-28T16:46:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes. Ultimately I expect the Baby Face Foundation only exists to promote cosmetic surgery through charity. Which they are within their rights to do and blah blah blah, but yes, this sends the wrong message and it makes the claim of “we’re helping kids!” for promotional reasons while failing to address bullying in any meaningful way. > > [http://www.littlebabyface.org/who.html](http://www.littlebabyface.org/who.html) Their website gives the impression that their goal is to help children who suffer from serious medical deformities, like cleft palates and microtia (underdeveloped ears). These conditions not only result in an abnormal appearance, but can impair a child’s speech, hearing, etc. I’d be pretty upset if I gave money to a charity thinking it was going to help disfigured children only to find out it had been used to help healthy, ordinary looking kids become slightly more attractive. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/24 "2012-07-28T16:50:25Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Their website gives the impression that their goal is to help children who suffer from serious medical deformities, like cleft palates and microtia (underdeveloped ears). These conditions not only result in an abnormal appearance, but can impair a child’s speech, hearing, etc. I’d be pretty upset if I gave money to a charity thinking it was going to help disfigured children only to find out it had been used to help healthy, ordinary looking kids become slightly more attractive. Yes, and there are plenty of charities that address cleft palate, for example. This website talks about plenty of serious medical issues but says they also do “Facial cosmetics.” Maybe this is supposed to be a publicity stunt - a dumb message being sent to draw more attention to what would otherwise be a worthy cause. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/25 "2012-07-28T17:32:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Only in America. Reminds me of a story from the days of the Space Race. Astronauts need to be able to write notes in zero-g. America spends gazillions of dollars to develop a pen with a built-in ink pump that will write while oriented in any direction. Soviet astronauts are given pencils. > > Why do I hate America? 😛 :rolleyes: [The Write Stuff](http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/26 "2012-07-29T12:07:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > I don’t think you’re being objective. Nope. There is _never_ an excuse for beating another human simply for being physically different. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/27 "2012-07-29T14:29:29Z")
Stuff like this brings out my whiny, immature side. The side of me who thinks it must be nice to be bullied over something that’s obvious and “treatable”, rather than something more hidden and pervasive. I bet her obese/stuttering/clumsy/socially awkward classmates are really happy for her. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/28 "2012-07-29T16:16:39Z")
> [@photo caption](#): > > . . . surgeons worked to correct her ears, nose, and jawline How warped and twisted the concept of casual cosmetic surgery really is. There was nothing about this girl that needed “correcting.” Even the people writing the article use language that indicate that there was something “wrong” with how she looked. What did her parents say? “Yes, honey, your ears are broken, as is your nose and jaw. Let’s get that all corrected so you can be normal”? Sick and disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/29 "2012-07-29T16:36:12Z")
It’s likely she thought she had ugly protruding ears **before** she was a social outcast. Bullies tend to pick on the obvious when they aren’t making up things. I don’t oppose plastic surgery for kids in those cases. We let our kids have access to nice clothes, dermatologists, makeup, hairstylists, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/30 "2012-07-29T17:24:03Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Hmmm… $40k for cosmetic ear surgery (seems the jaw and nose were thrown in as some kind of bonuses), vs… a new hair style. > > Only in America. Reminds me of a story from the days of the Space Race. Astronauts need to be able to write notes in zero-g. America spends gazillions of dollars to develop a pen with a built-in ink pump that will write while oriented in any direction. Soviet astronauts are given pencils. > > Why do I hate America? 😛 Why do I hate urban legends? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/31 "2012-07-29T18:09:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Stuff like this brings out my whiny, immature side. The side of me who thinks it must be nice to be bullied over something that’s obvious and “treatable”, rather than something more hidden and pervasive. I bet her obese/stuttering/clumsy/socially awkward classmates are really happy for her. Well, treatable with a $40k in cosmetic surgery. For that much money one could probably do a lot to help a kid who was obese, a stutterer, or clumsy by hiring a personal trainer, dietician, speech therapist, dance instructor, etc. The awkward kid might also be helped through therapy, depending on the root cause of the awkwardness. But like I said above, I really don’t think this girl’s appearance was the problem. There are people who are so abnormal in their appearance that it disgusts or frightens others, but I can’t believe that was the case here and I don’t think it’s the case in most bullying situations. I think bullies generally bully either because they like bullying or because they’re going along with someone who does. These people would manage to find a victim if everyone in the group looked like a supermodel. If they have to they’ll just make something up. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/32 "2012-07-29T18:13:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why do I hate urban legends? Why do YOU hate America? America IS an urban legend. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/33 "2012-07-30T13:34:40Z")
I wonder if this outrage on our behalf is exactly why the Daily Fail printed the story. Of course this is awful, and of course the Baby Face Foundation, with its message of, “If you don’t fit this exact physical profile, you’re broken” is a group of horrible people. WHat is there to debate about that? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/34 "2012-07-30T13:46:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Presumably you mean the charity that funded this? If so, I agree. Besides which, I’m always suspicious of people or companies that form charities to essentially pay themselves to provide products or services that their recipients can’t otherwise afford, and of course promote their business through the PR they get for their charity. To me, that’s not charity, it’s advertising by other means. And the “charity” hit a home run here. I’ve seen that story at least three times on various news outlets and all I can think is, “is that the worst case they could find? A girl with big ears?” She had somewhat larger ears than normal but is otherwise a pretty young girl. The doctors are advertising for funds to pay themselves to do elective cosmetic surgery on people who want it but can’t afford it, plain and simple. The only reference to bullies in the story is her claim that bullies made fun of her. Who here wasn’t made fun of at some point? I can think of three or four members of my family with bigger ears that hers and they would all be laughed at if they tried to get a charity to pay for cosmetic surgery. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/35 "2012-07-30T13:47:30Z")
> [@Boswellia](#): > > Within a few seconds of reading this article, my mental response was… > > _“Well, the Bullies won then didn’t they. They got what they wanted”_ Though I understand your point, I don’t feel the bullies got what they wanted. They wanted to build themselves up by putting her down. When bullies point out some perceived flaw in a person the act is to brand them with a reminder that they are ‘defective’ and/or ugly. A person usually can not change such a aspect of their body so it is a constant reminder and reinforcement. It becomes what she sees in the mirror which is a reminder of the bullies words. There are various ways to overcome, one is acceptance of who you are, but also there are other ways as this girl went through. Her life is yet to play out, but I would be interested in a 20 year followup to see if this turns out to be a positive turn in a long term sense and perhaps, just perhaps, that bullying in early life will open up a door later that wouldn’t open if she did not have this surgery. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/36 "2012-07-30T13:56:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Wrong; blatant schoolyard style bullying can and mostly is ended, as soon as the authorities bother to try. As demonstrated by how such bullying magically goes away when people get old enough that it starts being treated as a crime. Your coworkers are unlikely to gang up on you and beat you up, because if they _did_ no one would say “boys will be boys”; they’d be arrested. Agreed. Here Here! Bullying doesn’t really disappear, however. It diminishes greatly, true but some of it just takes a different form. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/37 "2012-07-30T14:08:26Z")
How old was/is this girl? What’s the point of cosmetic surgery on kids who haven’t stopped growing yet? At 13, my niece was gawky, ungainly, with a big nose and crooked teeth. Today at 17 she’s absolutely stunning. Not only would surgery have been a waste of time and money (and unnecessary risk) – she could have easily ended up worse off in the long run as her face and body matured. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/38 "2012-07-30T16:28:03Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Nope. There is _never_ an excuse for beating another human simply for being physically different. I agree, but I think you’re envisioning the people who beat you up in school getting arrested and are enjoying a little schadenfreude from the idea. I’m not saying I know what the answer is, but I’m pretty sure it lies somewhere between “boys will be boys” and “send the little bastards to prison”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/39 "2012-07-30T16:30:09Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > How old was/is this girl? What’s the point of cosmetic surgery on kids who haven’t stopped growing yet? Indeed. Plastic surgery is not something, IMO, that should be legal to perform on someone under the age of consent, except in cases of severe medical deformities. This case is appalling, and the adults involved are worse than the child bullies involved. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614/40 "2012-08-02T09:18:01Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Well, treatable with a $40k in cosmetic surgery. For that much money one could probably do a lot to help a kid who was obese, a stutterer, or clumsy by hiring a personal trainer, dietician, speech therapist, dance instructor, etc. The awkward kid might also be helped through therapy, depending on the root cause of the awkwardness. Um, she’s specifically talking about herself. She’s saying she’s jealous of people like this, because she was picked on for something she can’t change, even with $40,000. I’ll let her decide whether to tell you what that is (mostly because I’m not sure I could sum it up well enough), but you can easily find out if you search the threads she’s started on this message board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-a-victory-for-bullies/629614.md?page=3)