# Is this actually racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174 "2015-10-30T13:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/41 "2015-10-30T21:30:11Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Considering that the party hasn’t even happened, and all that happened was that the flyers were produced, I’m not so sure it really warrants any sort of sanction. Right right. Rightrightright. Right right right… Right. Right. Gotcha. Also, how are intentions relevant to the need for sanctions in a case like this? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/42 "2015-10-30T21:32:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The only thing that tilts this towards racist is using the word “thug”. Eliminate it, and it’s just a hip-hop theme party. If hip-hop is a legit style, then it’s going to get copied. If you don’t like that, start a new style. This. The assumption in this thread that this would turn into some type of disdainful black-face farce is not a valid argument against. It’s making up shit. Yeah, and they might kill some black folk on the way to the party, too, in the frenzied contempt brought about by the wearing of bling. Are you for _murder_ now, SMU? I’m keeping an eye on you. I’m an old fart, but in my son’s circles, take it from me, white boys love them the hip-hop, and it is not with irony or contempt. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/43 "2015-10-30T21:33:09Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > In a perfect world this would be true. > > The problem is that regardless of their actual intent, they are the inheritors of hundreds of years of racist tradition. They didn’t ask to inherit it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it falls on them anyway and it colors how people view their actions. The fact of the matter is that, historically, whites have used blackface impersonation as a tool to attack blacks and perpetuate stereotypes (even if they told themselves it is all in good fun, as these college kids no doubt do). In other words , they are being held responsible for sins they did not commit. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/44 "2015-10-30T21:34:09Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > In other words , they are being held responsible for sins they did not commit. > > Slee In still other words, male platypuses have venomous spikes on their hind feet. Assuming we’re just going with other words, not other words relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/45 "2015-10-30T21:36:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Jew-bros? > > The only thing that tilts this towards racist is using the word “thug”. Eliminate it, and it’s just a hip-hop theme party. If hip-hop is a legit style, then it’s going to get copied. If you don’t like that, start a new style. THIS IS NOT A GOTCHA I AM ACTUALLY ASKING: Does what you wrote above mean you’ve changed your position (at least a little) as to whether “thug” is a racist term? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/46 "2015-10-30T21:40:57Z")
Are the people calling this racist disputing the notion that thuggery is not part of the hip-hop culture? Hell, it’s front and center and exploited. It’s often dialed up to a ridiculous degree to to give an artist cred. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/47 "2015-10-30T21:43:49Z")
Seeing as they admitted it was unintentionally racist and took it down, I don’t see why we’re discussing this. The flyer invoked negative stereotypes about black people. The party itself seemed to be about dressing up like that negative stereotype instead of being about hip hop. I do think that, at some point, we’ll get beyond seeing these stereotypes as racism, but we’re not there yet. The only way to get there is to fix our discrimination problem, so that these sorts of things come off as jokes instead of possibly real. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/48 "2015-10-30T21:44:31Z")
You’d think that the frat would have anticipated the entirely predictable response to this and gone with a different theme. Don’t they follow the news? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/49 "2015-10-30T21:46:16Z")
“Sound decisionmaking” is not really something one associates with college students. Especially drunk ones in a group. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/50 "2015-10-30T21:46:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Are the people calling this racist disputing the notion that thuggery is not part of the hip-hop culture? Hell, it’s front and center and exploited. It’s often dialed up to a ridiculous degree to to give an artist cred. Ethnic slurs (and misogynistic slurs, and homophobic slurs) have been included in some hip-hop songs (not to mention songs from many other genres) – I don’t think that makes it acceptable to use such slurs, even in a hip-hop themed event. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/51 "2015-10-30T21:49:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Seeing as they admitted it was unintentionally racist and took it down, I don’t see why we’re discussing this. > > The flyer invoked negative stereotypes about black people. The party itself seemed to be about dressing up like that negative stereotype instead of being about hip hop. But it’s a stereotype that’s intentionally filed up within hip-hop. If the frat is guilty of it, the artists themselves are guilty of it. Every artists with gold teeth and chains and talking about abusing bitches and killing cops. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/52 "2015-10-30T21:51:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But it’s a stereotype that’s intentionally filed up within hip-hop. If the frat is guilty of it, the artists themselves are guilty of it. Every artists with gold teeth and chains and talking about abusing bitches and killing cops. Let’s grant your reasoning here, for the sake of argument. The next question is–so what? If the frat being guilty of it implies that hip hop artists are also guilty of it, what is your point in highlighting this fact? What effect do you think this has on what anyone should think the answer to the OP’s question is? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/53 "2015-10-30T21:59:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But it’s a stereotype that’s intentionally filed up within hip-hop. If the frat is guilty of it, the artists themselves are guilty of it. Every artists with gold teeth and chains and talking about abusing bitches and killing cops. Only some of the artists are “guilty” of this kind of language. At various times in hip-hop’s history, including now, I think, this is a pretty small fraction of all of hip-hop music. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/54 "2015-10-30T22:03:20Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Let’s grant your reasoning here, for the sake of argument. > > The next question is–so what? If the frat being guilty of it implies that hip hop artists are also guilty of it, what is your point in highlighting this fact? What effect do you think this has on what anyone should think the answer to the OP’s question is? First, the cause/effect here is inverted. The fact that thuggery is part of the hip-hop culture means that including thuggery in a portrayal of the hip-hop culture is not racist. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/55 "2015-10-30T22:13:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Only some of the artists are “guilty” of this kind of language. At various times in hip-hop’s history, including now, I think, this is a pretty small fraction of all of hip-hop music. Oh, I agree. But it seems you agree that it is part of the culture. And, like any other Halloween portrayal of a “thing”, it is going to be a somewhat cartoonish version of reality. a caricature of the actual thing. Same for any themed party. No? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/56 "2015-10-30T22:15:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You go with that, I’ll go with calling people out for their shitty racist stereotypes when they engage in them, we’ll see who gets traction :). > > Oh wait. I’m already winning! Go me! Winning points with the disingenuous SJW brigade is like winning an argument on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/57 "2015-10-30T22:20:12Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Everything is racists, but I don’t give a damn as long as you don’t go appropriating any of my heritage Viking themed stuff. I don’t care if you guys worked this out - awesome helmet, Rune - I tracked this cartoon down and I’m posting it! [Scandinavia and the World - Nordic Halloween](http://satwcomic.com/nordic-halloween) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/58 "2015-10-30T22:26:42Z")
“Actually” racist to whom? Under what circumstances do you get to shout down the aggrieved party and tell them that they’re making a big deal over nothing and that they have no right to be offended? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/59 "2015-10-30T22:36:12Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, I agree. But it seems you agree that it is part of the culture. And, like any other Halloween portrayal of a “thing”, it is going to be a somewhat cartoonish version of reality. a caricature of the actual thing. Same for any themed party. No? I think I see what you mean, but regardless of what’s actually in the “real” hip-hop culture, it’s still inappropriate to use racial slurs, in my view. Since many see “thug” and related words as a racial slur (or something similar), I think it’s a good idea to avoid such words, and reasonable for a university to sanction their use. I don’t think this is the end of the world, and I don’t think the fraternity should have been banned for this, and it sounds like they responded reasonably. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174/60 "2015-10-31T00:08:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think I see what you mean, but regardless of what’s actually in the “real” hip-hop culture, it’s still inappropriate to use racial slurs, in my view. Since many see “thug” and related words as a racial slur (or something similar), I think it’s a good idea to avoid such words, and reasonable for a university to sanction their use. > > I don’t think this is the end of the world, and I don’t think the fraternity should have been banned for this, and it sounds like they responded reasonably. The idea that “thug” is a racial slur is hilarious. Is any insult now a slur? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-actually-racist/736174.md?page=4)