# Is this an enforceable patent? (Worlds.com suing MMO's) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 30, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219 "2008-12-30T15:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/1 "2008-12-30T15:35:46Z")
See the following: > [@](#): > > [Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com)’s lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction on NCsoft’s supposedly infringing MMO wares, an unspecified amount of damages along with prejudgment and postjudgement interest, or “in no event less than a reasonable royalty.” > > The [Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com) patent 6,731,314 is described as: > > ``` > **A client computer program provides instructions for a processor to locate and retrieve rich media and HTML files over a network, such as the internet, an internet or an LAN, for running in a three-dimensional (3D) graphical user interface. The program provides instructions for the processor to generate a 3D graphical user interface on a display. Then, the processor generates a metaphorical user object for navigating and interacting in the three dimensions within the environment via navigational and interactional inputs, respectively, from a user. The processor also integrates an HTML object into the environment, and interacts the user object with the HTML object in response to an interactional input from the user.** > > ``` > > Which should sound familiar to anyone who’s ever played an MMO game - or nearly any 3-D online application. > > SOURCE: [City of Heroes fingered in MMO patent lawsuit • The Register](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/29/ncsoft_sued_by_worlds/) As noted the above would apply to pretty much every Massivley Multiplayer Game there is. IANAL but their patent seems overly broad. To me it sounds like trying to patent a keyboard layout as opposed to a specific keyboard design. The first is not patentable (I do not think) while the second one is. That said there was some analysis of the case [here](http://www.massively.com/2008/12/30/the-patent-that-stole-christmas/) and they seem to think [Worlds.Com](http://Worlds.Com) might have a chance at this. Any ideas? ETA: Misspelled “[Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com)” in the title. Can a mod edit that? If not no biggie. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/2 "2008-12-30T15:40:37Z")
Edited thread title as requested. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/3 "2008-12-30T18:38:10Z")
(This may be more IMHO than GQ.) Though IANAPL, my understanding is that a patent can be overturned by evidence of “prior art” - basically, showing that something similar to what is claimed in the patent was in the public domain prior to the date the patent was filed. It’s easy to imagine that in this case prior art would not be amazingly difficuly to find. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/4 "2008-12-30T20:13:02Z")
Ultimately, it depends on who has the better lawyers. There have been other cases of someone being granted a patent like that and using it to extort money from someone who actually made the concept work. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/5 "2008-12-30T20:20:11Z")
[Actual US Patent](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,731,314.PN.&OS=PN/6,731,314&RS=PN/6,731,314) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/6 "2008-12-30T20:51:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Ultimately, it depends on who has the better lawyers. There have been other cases of someone being granted a patent like that and using it to extort money from someone who actually made the concept work. Sure but part of the problem here is they can pretty much extort an entire industry if they are successful. I am hard pressed to think of any MMO developer who would not be on the hit list. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/7 "2008-12-30T21:02:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sure but part of the problem here is they can pretty much extort an entire industry if they are successful. I am hard pressed to think of any MMO developer who would not be on the hit list. If [Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com) has a valid patent, then the U.S. government has given them the right to exclude all others from using their invention (for a limited period of time.) Regardless of what you think of patent policy, it’s not extortion. If every MMO developer is infringing a valid patent, then they are unlawfully using the intellectual property of someone else. This patent was filed in 1999. I suspect that it will be found invalid–I remember playing quake, quake II, and I think even Half-Life by then. These probably don’t have the “HTML object,” but if a defendant can show that the use of the HTML object was “obvious,” then the patent will be found invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/8 "2008-12-30T21:08:17Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > If [Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com) has a valid patent, then the U.S. government has given them the right to exclude all others from using their invention (for a limited period of time.) Regardless of what you think of patent policy, it’s not extortion. If every MMO developer is infringing a valid patent, then they are unlawfully using the intellectual property of someone else. I agree completely. Except in this case their patent seems so broad as to catch most anyone. To me it would be akin to me copyrighting the word “the” and then trying to charge anyone who used it. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/9 "2008-12-30T21:51:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I agree completely. > > Except in this case their patent seems so broad as to catch most anyone. To me it would be akin to me copyrighting the word “the” and then trying to charge anyone who used it. Well, don’t forget that in determining whether something was “obvious,” you are not allowed to use hindsight. The software world moves quickly, and 9+ years can include multiple generations of technology. In other words, you are supposed to put yourself in the shoes of someone with skill in software development in 1999, the time the patent was filed. Just because everyone’s using something _now_ doesn’t mean that it was obvious _then_. ---
**Author:** ![Spurious\_George](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Spurious\_George](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spurious_George)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/10 "2008-12-30T22:06:21Z")
I think they may be undone by the “rich media (so nine years ago!) and HTML” language. Do MMO’s integrate ‘HTML objects’ into their interfaces? I’m thinking that when you boot up WOW or City Of Heroes, it’s not serving you HTML code. ---
**Author:** ![Apex\_Rogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@Apex\_Rogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apex_Rogers)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/11 "2008-12-30T22:40:23Z")
> [@Spurious\_George](#): > > I think they may be undone by the “rich media (so nine years ago!) and HTML” language. Do MMO’s integrate ‘HTML objects’ into their interfaces? I’m thinking that when you boot up WOW or City Of Heroes, it’s not serving you HTML code. This was my thought as well. From my limited exposure to patent interpretation, specificity of a patent can be its undoing. This is why most patents are written as vaguely as possible–while still retaining the unique part that is to be protected, of course–as a means to catch similar derivative items. Based on this understanding, MMOs that do not use “rich media” (whatever that is) or HTML would not be constrained by this patent. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/12 "2008-12-30T22:45:34Z")
I agree about the HTML bit - this might put browser based MMO’s in trouble, but most of the bigger games arent using HTML for their main playing screen I thought, unless thats what the chat tabs make use of? Also most of the graphics are on the client for games, they arent obtained over the network in normal play, except as downloaded patches. Only game data is transmitted, to instruct the client what files to load from the client. There was a game I played a fair while ago that this would actually apply to, Im wondering if that was actually Worlds, it was one where people could build 3d objects ingame. It was a major pain as you had to wait for everything to download as a result, textures and all, any time you went to a new area. Depends how broadly you define the patent I guess, ie whether patches are really what the patent was intended to cover, when the majority of the content can come from a DvD. If you go that route then any 3d game that can be bought as a download would seem to qualify. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/13 "2008-12-31T01:07:22Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > I agree about the HTML bit - this might put browser based MMO’s in trouble, but most of the bigger games arent using HTML for their main playing screen I thought, unless thats what the chat tabs make use of? RuneScape has been an online browser-based MMORPG since before the patent was filed, and five years before it was granted, so I think even that aspect is safe from the patent. It seems to me to be yet another case the USTPO not having the resources and/or expertise to investigate prior art for patents. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/14 "2008-12-31T07:23:54Z")
As RealityChuck says, it often depends on who has the best lawyers – or who has the deep pockets to fight in Court until the other side is exhausted & broke. As an example, this summer Microsoft was granted US Patent 7,415,666 for PageUp and PageDown keys. But they have been in use on mainframe computers since at least the last 35 years, since the introduction of ISPF in 1974. So, IMO, that patent should not have been granted, and is unenforcable. But Microsoft has it, and could try to enforce it against smaller companies, and they may find it cheaper to pay Microsoft fees rather than fight them in court. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/15 "2008-12-31T07:39:23Z")
Disclaimer: I am a patent lawyer, but I am not the lawyer of anyone in this thread or of any company that may be a party to any infringement action involving any patent held by [Worlds.com](http://Worlds.com). I have not reviewed the file history of the patent in suit, so at least for that reason, I am unable to render a competent opinion as to its validity. I have never played a MMO game, and don’t have a good idea of what is or was known in the art. That said, I have a few comments. The article in the OP cites the wrong patent - that one expired in June for failure to pay maintenance fees. The actual patent in suit is [7,181,690](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,181,690.PN.&OS=PN/7,181,690&RS=PN/7,181,690), according to the [complaint](http://www.virtualworldtimes.com/files/complaintworldscomvnesoft6-08cv508.pdf) (pdf). The independent claims of that patent read as follows: > [@](#): > > 1. A method for enabling a first user to interact with other users in a virtual space, wherein the first user and the other users each have an avatar and a client process associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, wherein the method comprises: (a) receiving a position of less than all of the other users’ avatars from the server process; and (b) determining, from the received positions, a set of the other users’ avatars that are to be displayed to the first user, wherein steps (a) and (b) are performed by the client process associated with the first user. > > 2. A method for enabling a plurality of users to interact in a virtual space, wherein each user has a computer associated therewith, wherein each computer has a client process associated therewith, wherein each client process has an avatar associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, comprising: (a) monitoring, by each client process, a position of the avatar associated with the client process; (b) transmitting, by each client process to the server process, the position of the avatar associated with the client process; (c) transmitting, by the server process to each client process, the positions of less than all of the avatars that are not associated with the client process; and (d) determining from the positions transmitted in step (c), by each client process, a set of the avatars that are to be displayed. > > 3. A method for operating a server to enable a plurality of users to interact in a virtual space, wherein each user has a computer associated therewith, wherein each computer has a client process associated therewith, wherein each client process has an avatar associated therewith, wherein the server has a process associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with the server process, comprising: (a) receiving, from each client process by the server process, data indicating a position of the avatar associated with the client process; and (b) synchronously disseminating less than all of the positions of the avatars not associated with a particular client process to each of the other client processes so that the particular client process can determine from the positions a set of avatars that are to be displayed. > > 4. A system for enabling a first user to interact with other users in a virtual space, wherein the first user and the other users each have an avatar associated therewith, and wherein the system comprises a first process associated with the first user, other client processes associated with the other users, and a server process in communication with the first client process and the other client processes, wherein (a) each of the other client processes is operable to 1. monitor a position of the avatar associated with the other user; 2. transmit the position of the avatar to the server process; (b) the server process is operable to 1. receive the positions of the avatars associated with the other users; 2. transmit the positions of the avatars associated with less than all of the other users to the first client process; and (c) the first client process is operable to 1. receive the positions of the avatars associated with less than all of the other users; and 2. determine from the received positions a set of the other users’ avatars that are to be displayed. > > 5. A software program recorded on a machine-readable medium for enabling a first user interact with other users in a virtual space, wherein the first user and the other users each have an avatar a client process associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, wherein the software program comprises instructions for causing the client process associated with the first user to perform the following steps: (a) receiving a position of at less than all of the other users’ avatar from the server process; and (b) determining, from the received positions, a set of the other users’ avatars that are to be displayed to the first user. > > 6. A software program recorded on a machine-readable medium for enabling a plurality of users to interact in a virtual space, wherein each user has a computer associated therewith, wherein each computer has a client process associated therewith, wherein each client process has an avatar associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, wherein the software program includes instructions for: (a) monitoring, by each client process, a position of the avatar associated with the client process; (b) transmitting, by each client process to the server process, the position of the avatar associated with the client process; (d) transmitting, by the server process to each client process, the positions of less than all of the avatars that are not associated with the client process; and (d) determining from the positions transmitted in step (c), by each client process, a set of the avatars that are to be displayed. > > 7. A software program recorded on a machine-readable medium for operating a server to enable a plurality of users to interact in a virtual space, wherein each user has a computer associated therewith, wherein each computer has a client process associated therewith, wherein each client process has an avatar associated therewith, wherein the server has a process associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with the server process, wherein the software program comprises instructions for: (a) receiving from each client process by the server process, data indicating a position of the avatar associated with the client process; and (b) synchronously disseminating the positions of less than all of the avatars not associated with a particular client process to each of the other client processes so that the particular client process can determine from the positions a set of avatars that are to be displayed. These all seem to include the limitation that the server sends the client data on less than all of the other avatar positions, and the client determines which of them to display. I don’t know if this is a critical limitation or not - the file history is not online, and I’m not interested enough to order it from the PTO (although I can see online that there was quite a lot of back-and-forth with the PTO - there were seven rejections by my count before the application was allowed). I’ll let the people who actually know how these games are constructed tell me whether these claims seem to read on them - but the issued claims define what the patent actually covers, so these are what to look at to figure it out. The patent in suit was filed in 2000, but it claims priority back to a patent filed on Nov. 12, 1996, so to the extent that the claims are supported by the disclosure of [that patent](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,219,045.PN.&OS=PN/6,219,045&RS=PN/6,219,045), only art published before that date may be used in considering the obviousness of the claimed invention (and art between Nov. 12, 1995 and Nov. 11, 1996 _may_ be removed from consideration depending on what the inventors can prove about when they actually made the invention). 1996 is a _very_ long time ago in the software world. As I said, I don’t know much about the actual technology here, but I’m happy to answer questions about the law part. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/16 "2008-12-31T14:21:56Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > That said, I have a few comments. Thanks. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/17 "2008-12-31T14:31:56Z")
> [@Apex\_Rogers](#): > > This was my thought as well. From my limited exposure to patent interpretation, specificity of a patent can be its undoing. This is why most patents are written as vaguely as possible–while still retaining the unique part that is to be protected, of course–as a means to catch similar derivative items. Based on this understanding, MMOs that do not use “rich media” (whatever that is) or HTML would not be constrained by this patent. I too am not sure what “rich media” is. But you miss one point, which is the doctrine of equivalents. Embodiments insubstantially different from those disclosed could be found to infringe. Perhaps the better challenge for a defendant here would be the separate patentability requirements that the applicant provide a clear written description of what he purports to claim, one that would enable those of ordinary skill in the art to practice the full scope of the invention without undue experimentation. These requirements, at least in theory, should be able to trip up a lot of vaguely-claiming patentees. ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/18 "2008-12-31T22:58:46Z")
_Deleted – I made some incorrect assumptions about the contents of the patent, and then clicked ‘submit’ instead of ‘preview’_ ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/19 "2008-12-31T23:21:50Z")
:: deleted quotes from deleted post, but left in relevant discussion :: To be exact, the patent must enable a “person having ordinary skill in the art” (often abbreviated PHOSITA) to make and use the invention without undue experimentation. (The “schooled” formulation has been specifically rejected, since the courts don’t care how the PHOSITA acquired his skill, only that he has it.) And the big numbered lists of parts on mechanical patents, in general, have more to do with the dense thicket of prior art for most mechanical inventions than with the enablement requirement. Since mechanical inventions fall within the “predictable arts” (as do computer programs), they require substantially _less_ disclosure to be enabled than, for example, biotechnology or chemistry inventions. :: more deleted quotes :: You’re making an assumption about who the person having ordinary skill in the art is for this case. It may not be (and in my not-very-informed opinion, likely is not) an ordinary programmer, but a sophisticated game designer. I did find one case in a brief review that held that 1.5 man-years of software development time was too long, but that was in the early 1980’s, and standards may have changed with the advent of more big team software projects. In general, design documents are way more detailed than patent applications need to be. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219/20 "2009-01-01T01:24:36Z")
Wiki says there were commercial multiplayer MUD’s as early as 1987 with Air Warrior, and Gemstone series, and there was Neverwinter Nights in 1991. Meridian came out in Dec 1995 as a 3d MMO, and presumably started being made well before that, given the cutoff is Nov 12 1995 for that one year window. The Realm Online was supposedly launched on March 1995. Seems to me they’ll be struggling unless Wiki has those dates wrong. Otara [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-an-enforceable-patent-worlds-com-suing-mmos/479219.md?page=2)