# Is this announcement some "Freeman of the Land" or "Sovereign Citizen" thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838 "2021-06-22T12:30:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/1 "2021-06-22T12:30:19Z")
This was in the _Montreal Gazette_ in the “Legal Notices” section today. I know that I should attempt to summarize this but I honestly don’t know how I can as it is just so bizarre and drawn out. As the topic title asks, is this someone’s sovereign citizen thing or is it actually valid, legal stuff? Here’s the link and the actual text follows: > **[Montreal Gazette | Classifieds | Notices](https://classifieds.montrealgazette.com/montreal/notices/the-living-man-on-the-land-jea/AC1E03AF0f2450D429YnU937A68F)** > > Free and paid Notices classified ads of the Montreal Gazette Classifieds. Browse Notices classified ads and free ads. Post free Notices classified ads. “The living man on the land jean-denis of the boudreault family known by the Trade Name Jean-Denis Boudreault and his wife also on the land katherine of the boudreault family known by the Trade Name Katherine Siavichay currently living in lower canada and lawfully married on the land before God on December 18 2008, announce that they have created 3 new lives all born on the land, a daughter on September 1 2011, a son on June 7 2013 and another son September 3 2016 whose trade names shall be respectively Zia Boudreault, Lucas Boudreault and Raphael Boudreault and they claim their new creations as their true-born daughter and two sons, heirs and dependents and also announce that their heirs are alive and healthy and well on the land as of today. They jointly agree to transfer to them all their claims and rights to the common law copyrights and trademarks and all derivatives thereof of each Trade Name that they created and donated to each respective heir automatically when they reach the age of eighteen. They also jointly agree to emancipate their heirs automatically when they reach the age of eighteen and declare before all men and nations that they are otherwise subject only to God and this for eternity.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/2 "2021-06-22T12:36:15Z")
Totally Sovereign Citizen nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/3 "2021-06-22T12:42:49Z")
Yeah, this is some pure [Meads v. Meads](https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html) level BS. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/4 "2021-06-22T12:43:13Z")
Yep. [more text inserted to keep Discourse happy and for no other reason] ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/5 "2021-06-22T12:53:48Z")
Arthur C Clarke once pointed out that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. These poor people have no idea about the legal concepts they are referencing and it’s all just magic spells to them. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/6 "2021-06-22T13:33:57Z")
I like the bit where they agree to “emancipate their heirs automatically when they reach the age of eighteen” as if that’s not already the law. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/7 "2021-06-22T13:39:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I like the bit where they agree to “emancipate their heirs automatically when they reach the age of eighteen” as if that’s not already the law. If they didn’t explicitly state this, the kids would have to wear outfits with gold fringe at all times. That really is not a reasonable expectation. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/8 "2021-06-22T13:54:57Z")
One more silly thing is they have to get a court - which is run by the government they think has no jurisdiction over them - to enforce their claim. So not only do they expect the court to support them, but even if they support them, they have no jurisdiction to support him. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/9 "2021-06-22T14:08:38Z")
Yup, that’s a “these magic words will get me out of my unsecured debt/minor legal problems” announcement all the way. It’s ALWAYS debt or legal problems. At least 98% of them. Since these two appear to be married it’s not alimony or child support they’re trying to avoid, so it’s probably that they’re setting themselves up to get out of some kind of debt, tax owing, or traffic tickets or some such crap. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/10 "2021-06-22T14:13:12Z")
There’s a bunch near here, who apparently believe, in addition to the usual sovereign citizen mumbo-jumbo, that they can occupy houses that don’t belong to them, and that somehow the law permits them to do so. > **[Woman shares bizarre standoff with an extremist group trying to steal her...](https://www.dailydot.com/irl/moorish-sovereign-citizens-allegedly-steal-womans-home-tiktok/)** > > The past few days have been wild for @regblackgrl, whose bizarre standoff with Moorish Sovereign Citizens has gripped audiences on TikTok. Moorish Sovereign Citizens are a subset of sovcits. Actually, maybe that’s not right. They’re a crackpot group who have some beliefs that overlap with the sovereign citizen movement, but their origins are completely different. > **[Moorish Science Temple of America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > The Moorish Science Temple of America is an American national and religious organization founded by Noble Drew Ali (born as Timothy Drew) in the early twentieth century. He based it on the premise that African Americans are descendants of the Moabites and thus are "Moorish" (sometimes also spelled "Muurish" by adherents) by nationality, and Islamic by faith. Ali put together elements of major traditions to develop a message of personal transform... ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/11 "2021-06-22T15:15:24Z")
At its best, this stuff reads like a Monty Python sketch. > [@](#): > > My theory by A. Elk. Brackets Miss, brackets. This theory goes as > follows and begins now. All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much, much > thicker in the middle and then thin again at the far end. That is my theory, > it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/12 "2021-06-22T16:30:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yup, that’s a “these magic words will get me out of my unsecured debt/minor legal problems” announcement all the way. > > It’s ALWAYS debt or legal problems. At least 98% of them. Since these two appear to be married it’s not alimony or child support they’re trying to avoid, so it’s probably that they’re setting themselves up to get out of some kind of debt, tax owing, or traffic tickets or some such crap. I think their punchline is the final clause of the final sentence: > They also jointly agree to emancipate their heirs automatically when they reach the age of eighteen and declare before all men and nations _that they are otherwise subject only to God and this for eternity._” Italics mine. IMO … They are hereby declaring that their children and all subsequent descendants are immune from taxation, laws, and all other manmade strictures for all time. Since right now their kids are their sole property over whom they are the sole sovereign, this immunity is a right they can invent and apply to them. As a result, everyone else on Earth just has to suck it up and agree. So there neener!! Arrant (and errant, and arrogant) nonsense of course. But at least they had the writing skill to put their conclusion at the end of the story. So often that’s missing from SovCit garbage. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/13 "2021-06-22T16:51:41Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > At its best, this stuff reads like a Monty Python sketch. > > > [@](#): > > > > My theory by A. Elk. Brackets Miss, brackets. This theory goes as > > > > > follows and begins now. All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much, much > > > thicker in the middle and then thin again at the far end. That is my theory, > > > it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too. The beast is molting. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/14 "2021-06-22T20:32:18Z")
This sent me to my copy of the Gazette and sure enough, it was there just as quoted. I had my wife, who had never heard of sovereign citizens before, read it and she was dumbfounded. Has anyone told these clowns that they are trespassing whenever they walk on a public sidewalk? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/15 "2021-06-22T20:45:04Z")
They can’t be trespassing because they are not “walking” they are “traveling”. Just as they don’t need drivers licenses to use the roads. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/16 "2021-06-22T23:00:53Z")
[Germany also has their own homegrown nuts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/17 "2021-06-22T23:09:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > They are hereby declaring that their children and all subsequent descendants are immune from taxation, laws, and all other manmade strictures for all time. Is _that_ all it takes? Cool! I hereby declare that I am the God referred to in their declaration. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/18 "2021-06-22T23:30:59Z")
For those new to the Sovereign Citizens movement, here’s a ref to my favorite legal humor bloggers articles on point: [https://loweringthebar.net/?s=sovereign+citizen](https://loweringthebar.net/?s=sovereign+citizen) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/19 "2021-06-22T23:44:23Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > They are hereby declaring that their children and all subsequent descendants are immune from taxation, laws, and all other manmade **strictures** for all time I read that as “structures” originally. Makes about as much sense as the original. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838/20 "2021-06-22T23:46:41Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I read that as “structures” originally. Makes about as much sense as the original. I’d actually be ok with your reading of it if it means they are not allowed indoors with other people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-announcement-some-freeman-of-the-land-or-sovereign-citizen-thing/944838.md?page=2)