# Is this article fair to Billy Graham? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763 "2011-06-08T18:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/21 "2011-06-08T20:46:55Z")
Well, there is that antisemitic streak, as well as the homophobic one. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/22 "2011-06-08T20:53:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, there is that antisemitic streak, as well as the homophobic one. That makes him distateful, not necessarily worthy of public humiliation. And his wife (he is still married, no?) would be hurt as well, I think. I will admit to having taken a sick pleasure a quarter century back when Jimmy Swaggart’s peccadillos were exposed, but that is partly because I was being a jerk and partly because I enjoy typing the word _peccadillo_. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/23 "2011-06-08T20:54:25Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’ve known of this policy for many, many years, and thought it was a well-known habit of Graham’s. It’s not that he’s an uncontrollable horndog; however, there is something to be said for eliminating any possible temptation. Also, there is the benefit of avoiding any semblance of impropriety – protecting his own reputation and protecting him from false accusations. Likewise, on all counts. I am under the impression that this policy is very longstanding. I have never heard even a hint of Graham having a problem in this area. It strikes me as simply a smart precaution. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/24 "2011-06-08T20:58:51Z")
The phrase wasn’t “aware of **others** ’ human weakness”, it was “aware of **his own** human weakness”. The only inference I can take from that is he didn’t trust **his own** weakness. He was afraid of what he might do. Whether or not that’s an accurate portrayal of him I wouldn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/25 "2011-06-08T21:02:05Z")
Again, I don’t think that has to be taken to mean he fears he will turn into a puddle of helpless hormones at the least opportunity, but that he would just rather not test himself. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/26 "2011-06-08T21:13:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Again, I don’t think that has to be taken to mean he fears he will turn into a puddle of helpless hormones at the least opportunity, but that he would just rather not test himself. And again, it specifies “\*\*\*he was aware of \*\ ***his** \*human weakness”. That’s pretty much proclaiming he had human weakness he was afraid he’d succumb to. People don’t walk around fearing succumbing to human weakness so much that they assign themselves supervision unless there’s something there; it’s just not on most people’s radar. I don’t know how much more specific it could have been written. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/27 "2011-06-08T21:25:48Z")
A big part of what I’m wondering about is did the reporter learn of this apparently real and long-standing policy and make up or assume the part about him being aware of his human weaknesses, or was that detail provided by someone who could know that? I’m not that familiar with Newsweek’s style and policy on such things. If statements like that appeared in a newspaper, I would expect at least a “sources close to Graham” weaselly attribution. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/28 "2011-06-08T21:39:53Z")
Likewise, I think S **kammer** got it right. And I’ve heard of Graham’s policy for many years…it is longstanding and has served him well. I think the author of the article was putting his own interpretation on the matter, and may have got it wrong. Billy Graham’s faith is not mine, and I have often disagreed with him but have always had a high regard for the man. So far as I know there has never been any scandle attached to him nor any appearance of excessive self-interest. He has avoided negativity and condemnation, has avoided partisan politics and has largely kept to a positive message. His “anti-semitic” statements didn’t really amount to much when placed in context, nevertheless they were ill-advised and when called on it he admitted as much and made his apologies. Likewise, his faith teaches that homosexual acts are wrong; he has spoken against homosexual activities, but has never preached hatred of homosexuals. Rev. Graham rose several levels in my estimation when he overcame physical frailty and against the advice of his doctors and staff, traveled to DC to give that fine sermon at the 9/11 memorial service. True to form, he did not call for retribution and hatred, but spoke of the over-arching love of God and the ability of mankind to persevere in the face of adversity. Given that the 9/11 attacks were at least partly religiously motivated, and that certain dirty little ayatollahs and imams were dancing and cheering, I was inordinately proud that America could match “their” holy men with one of our own…and that ours should appear so much bigger and better than they. If there were more evangelical Christians like Billy Graham, the world would probably be a better place. SS ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/29 "2011-06-08T21:58:51Z")
It’s both. And it’s a teaching of the church. You guys act like the idea of not being alone with another woman other than your wife is somehow some foreign concept. Pretending like you are stronger than your most basic human instincts is precisely why people wind up failing. Even if you are stronger, why encourage other people who aren’t? But, even if he was a horndog, what’s the problem? How is it somehow a bad thing to know your flaws (that a lot of humans share, BTW) and work around them? Why in the world would you loose respect for the guy? If you honestly thought his message was “I’m better than you, so be like me,” then you never respected the guy in the first place. Sometimes, the concepts dreamed up on this message board are so horribly foreign to me. Knowing your flaws and working around them: what a horrible thing to do! OR what Skammer said in a much more polite way. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/30 "2011-06-08T23:56:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And it’s a teaching of the church. You guys act like the idea of not being alone with another woman other than your wife is somehow some foreign concept. What church is that? I’ve never encountered it. When I auditioned to play guitar at my church ten years ago, the audition consisted of me and the female choir director alone in a room. Nobody seemed to think anything was odd or dangerous about that. And for a non-rich, non-famous person like me, the idea of avoiding being alone with a woman who is not my wife IS a foreign concept. This thread has mentioned several quite sensible reasons for Billy Graham to have such a rule, but there’s no reason for most people to live that way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/31 "2011-06-09T00:07:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And his wife (he is still married, no?) would be hurt as well, I think. His wife died in 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/32 "2011-06-09T00:21:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think the implication that Billy believes himself to be an uncontrollable horndog is too strong, though. It’s not necessary to interpret his "human weakness’ as anything more than an unwaress that he is subject to temptation and could conceivably succumb to it under the right conditions. > > It’s _also_ just a smart thing to do to protect against false accusations, but that doesn’t mean he might not be 100% certain of his ability to always say no. Any rich, famous male, even a televangelist, is going to attract women with a sexual interest, and some of them are going to be hot, and well…how do any of us know how strong wecould really be all the time? > [@Skammer](#): > > I’ve known of this policy for many, many years, and thought it was a well-known habit of Graham’s. It’s not that he’s an uncontrollable horndog; however, there is something to be said for eliminating any possible temptation. Also, there is the benefit of avoiding any semblance of impropriety – protecting his own reputation and protecting him from false accusations. > > So it’s a little bit of A, and a little bit of B, but I certainly don’t see anything negative about it. Think of the famous/powerful men who would have benefited from the same policy: Bill Clinton, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Jim Bakker… I agree with the above. And I’ve heard of enough cases, or hints of cases, of men—not just famous and powerful men, but also ordinary pastors and church elders and counselors—who have gotten into serious trouble, or at least crossed a line into inappropriateness, that they would not have done had they followed Graham’s policy. at least when it comes to situations involving working closely together or offering pastoral counseling. > [@shiftless](#): > > I, and many others, would love to hear about BG getting caught in some sex scandal, hence his well justified caution. His claim to fame is built, in part, on his morality. 😕☹ I don’t think the last sentence is accurate. The heart of Billy Graham’s message and “claim to fame,” as I understand it, isn’t morality, but calling people to come to Jesus “Just As I Am.” Furthermore, unless there’s something I don’t know about him, he’s neither a bad man nor a raging hypocrite, so I would take no pleasure whatsoever at hearing anything scandalous about him. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/33 "2011-06-09T00:34:14Z")
I always thought that that was an excellent idea. Not only to prevent the appearance of impropriety, but public figures attract a wide variety of fans, some of which are not mentally stable. And enemies. What’s to prevent some woman from claiming she was fondled or whatever by the great Billy Graham and either selling her tale to the tabloids, or an enemy out ruining his reputation? It’s the same reason a nurse or p.a. is in the exam room with you and the doctor when you have a gyn exam, right? What’s really sad is having to explain to someone what “appearance of impropriety” means, sadly some folks just don’t grasp the concept. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/34 "2011-06-09T01:48:19Z")
I don’t think this is an uncommon practice. And I think it’s a wise one. It makes me kind of sad that it has to be that way, but protecting either party in the conversation from any appearance of impropriety is a good idea. From what I’ve read, a lot of male authority figures do the same thing, including teachers, school principals, ministers, etc. It isn’t just whatever temptation of his own might come up, but it’s not unheard of for people to form attachments to people they share personal information with, somewhat like therapists and such. I’d wonder where that phrase in the article came from, if it’s something he said, or the writer’s interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/35 "2011-06-09T02:41:09Z")
I worked in elementary schools and ran day programs in St. Paul. It’s common policy for adults who work with children those capacities to never allow themselves to be alone with a child (of either gender). If we took kids swimming during one the summer day camps, we had to have at least two staff of each gender to go into the locker rooms with them. You can’t take any chances. The mere accusation is a killer. It’s better never to even allow the opportunity for an accusation. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/36 "2011-06-09T03:02:38Z")
I remember reading a magazine article circa 1997 in a magazine in a doctor’s office (it was Time or Newsweek) and it was an interview with Billy Graham. He said that he didn’t want to be alone in a room with a woman because he realized he had the same weaknesses as all men and didn’t want to succumb to temptation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763/37 "2011-06-09T04:39:41Z")
I voted for “avoid false accusations.” BG has always seemed skeevy to me. Always seeking fame, making a great deal of money, etc. There is no President’s ass he did not sniff to look like a big shot. It is more difficult for a rich man to enter heaven than it is for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle and all that. But comparing him to his loathsome, hateful and bigoted son Franklin makes him look good by comparison. FG is a real disgusting creep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-article-fair-to-billy-graham/584763.md?page=1)