# Is this being overly manipulative? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948 "2010-05-27T14:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/21 "2010-05-27T15:56:39Z")
It’s not you, it’s your mother. If your mother divorced your dad over his making noise when he came in from work, I think she’s the one with a major problem. (BTW, is it possible that he had diminished hearing – maybe from work – and didn’t realize just how noisy he was? Did the house have the kind of acoustics that you could hear everything going on in it, magnified?). I think I would tell her to forget the guilt trips and let her know that you refuse to fall for that crap anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/22 "2010-05-27T16:30:09Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Well is leaving your phone in your bag a regular thing? > Do you ignore only your mom’s messages or is this how you check out to take time for yourself? In college, I was particularly bad about staying in touch. I’d go weeks without calling/emailing/texting, and I think some of this has been carried over from that period. When I’m having “me” time, I’ll usually just leave my phone in my bag and not bother to check it for a day or two. During that period, I won’t see any calls or texts. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > You told you couldn’t go, so the calls with info about the event should never have been made. (Actually, I would say those calls were manipulative, but not the main point of this episode.) Yes, the calls were definitely also manipulative. Not so much “if you change your mind” as “I’ll pick you up at X o’clock.” And I’m sure the fact that I was annoyed that she even made them acted on some level to push me to not put such a big priority on replying after the fact. > [@](#): > > The noise thing happened consistently, almost every night. I presume the call return happens occasionally. As far as I can remember, yeah, I’ve been good about replying to calls/emails/whathaveyou lately. It helps that she and I usually get together every Sunday evening for dinner and videos–we haven’t had that for a few weeks because she’s been dealing with things with her parents. > [@](#): > > She has essentially accused you of deliberately not returning the calls, not having even considered that there could be reasons for this that don’t involve you making a decision about it. Later in the chain, she clarified that she didn’t think it was deliberate in the sense that I was doing it to hurt her, but that I just didn’t care enough about her feelings/needs/wants to remember that she wants me to always acknowledge every single call/email/text ASAP. > [@Green\_Bean](#): > > The bringing up of the divorce stuff was completly out of line and utterly irrelevant anyway. It provides a textbook example of what divorced parents are NOT supposed to do with regard to telling their kids details of the divorce and badmouthing the other parent. To be fair, that’s not something she makes a habit of doing, and it’s not anything she \*\*\*ever \*\*\*brought up when my brother and I were kids (I’ll be 27 in July). > [@](#): > > My friend did some research on how to deal with someone with BPD, and followed the advice on setting boundaries and refusing to let her mom suck her into “epic chains of emails” and so forth. Her mom is still trying the same old crap, but it’s gotten a LOT easier for my friend to deal with. > > She would have handled that situation by simply apologizing for not checking her phone and not replying soon enough. I think that would have been a good course of action for you too. After a big blowup over something similarly stupid a year ago, I promised myself that I would stop enabling my mother’s manipulative martyr bullshit. Every time she tried to pull emotional blackmail and guilt-trip me into something instead of just being reasonable, I was not going to reward that behavior by acting in a way that would be, to her, appropriately contrite and conciliatory (read: groveling). > [@](#): > > (Not that it’s really relevant to the question at hand, but why the holy heck didn’t they just use separate bedrooms temporarily? Wait, stupid question. That wouldn’t have allowed her to play the victim card.) Three-bedroom house. I believe at this point, either I was in the room across from the bathroom and my brother was in the room next to my parents’, or I was in the room next to my parents’ and the one across from the bathroom was still a den/study. > [@HelloNinja](#): > > Your mom divorced your dad because he made too much noise when he got home? No, he was an asshole. He’s matured a lot in the past five to ten years. But it’s not like Mom was a 100% well adjusted, either. > [@Wheelz](#): > > I’ll give your mom _one_ thing: You shouldn’t have “forgotten” to return her voice mails when you did finally listen to them. Agreed–I kept thinking, “Oh, I should text Mom real quick to let her know I got the VMs too late.” It was just never at a time when I had my phone handy, and by the time it would have been, I’d forget again. This is actually pretty classic for my family–we’re all pretty airheaded that way. “Mind like a steel sieve” as the joke goes. And if she would have just said, “Hey, you never replied to my calls last weekend. It really bugs me when I don’t hear back from you about something–can you please try to remember to respond, even if the message is moot by the time you get it?” there would have been no problem. I’d have apologized and renewed my efforts to remember to respond to things even when there’s no point, because that’s what she wants. But she couldn’t just ask–she had to try to make me feel like a terrible person at the same time. > [@](#): > > She’s playing the victim card way out of proportion to the situation, and yes, it’s manipulative. Does she have a habit of sending you on guilt trips like this, or is this something new? No, this is classic for her. Guilt, martyrdom, and manipulation, at least as far as I see it. But whenever I try to point that out to her, well, of \*course \*that’s just me being defensive and evasive and not taking responsibility! :rolleyes: > [@BigT](#): > > I don’t think it’s really manipulative, since her intent is extremely clear. But I do think it is out of line. I think it was clearly designed to make you feel bad in a way that merely chewing you out would not. IMO, “clearly designed to make you feel bad in a way that merely chewing you out would not” = “manipulative.” > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > A “family thing” means what, exactly? My lil’ bro got his Master’s. It had already been agreed that we would celebrate his MA and my cousin’s fiance’s PA degree in two weeks, on the weekend of a big family gathering. My brother absolutely hated his undergrad commencement (as did I), and AFAIK he had no plans to attend this one, either. > [@](#): > > Whether or not your absence was noted … was your presence necessary? Required? When I found out on Saturday noon about the plans for Sunday morning, I immediately checked with my brother. He was absolutely fine with me not attending. > [@](#): > > Has she always been like this, in one form or another? Yes. > [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > BTW, is it possible that he had diminished hearing – maybe from work – and didn’t realize just how noisy he was? That’s actually a really good point. Dad has, I believe, permanent hearing loss in one ear since he was a kid. I think there might even be tinnitus involved. > [@](#): > > I think I would tell her to forget the guilt trips and let her know that you refuse to fall for that crap anymore. That’s what I told her last time, and I think she got the messge for a while. Maybe she just needs a refresher. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/23 "2010-05-27T16:34:37Z")
OK, reading the backstory, I want to change my vote to “manipulative” after all. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > … Maybe she just needs a refresher. Moms often do! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/24 "2010-05-27T16:36:28Z")
Make sure you get to keep the house in the divorce. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/25 "2010-05-27T16:44:01Z")
Yup - time for you to bow out of the dance you and your mom are doing. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/26 "2010-05-27T16:52:23Z")
My response would have been short, sweet and to the point. Dear Mom: The marriage issues that led to your divorce are not pertinent here, sorry. You gave me very little lead time to an event you wanted me to attend. I was honest with you, and told you unfortunately I would not be able to do so, not enough lead time, sorry. I am not going to apologize for not checking my phone messages on your schedule, by the time I received them, the time had already passed. Of course, you are free to read into, this simple chain of events anything you please, but that’s on you, not me. But since we’re being all psychological, let’s not forget that when a person says ‘no’ to someone, and they refuse to hear it, they are trying to manipulate that person. It’s the first rule of manipulation, I think it’s in the textbooks. If you don’t believe me, give Jay a call and see what he has to say. I am sorry to have disappointed you, by being unable, on short notice, to attend this event. And that’s all I can really say about this matter. Hope you’re feeling better soon, your loving daughter… ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/27 "2010-05-27T16:53:59Z")
Manipulative! And I hate, hate, hate, people who keep bugging me after I’ve already said no to something. I SAID NO! ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/28 "2010-05-27T16:57:43Z")
Another vote for being manipulative. The thing is, your mom may not even realize she’s being manipulative. I also have a very manipulative mother and she manages to convince herself quite thoroughly of her rightness every time she does something like that. When I attempt to reason with her, she either gets mad or starts crying. Is your mom the same? Also, do you have a landline? If so, why didn’t she just try your other number? ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/29 "2010-05-27T17:05:43Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > My custom user title is “Bad Mother,” so she was just teasing me. Hence the toungey-stickey-outey smiley. > > FWIW, I don’t consider myself a bad mother. It’s just a joke based on something hilarious that **Diosa** said in another thread. To **Green Bean** : Thanks for commenting, I could see you two must be message board pals, this was just some sort of teasing/tongue-and-cheek comment on her behalf. I should have used the obligatory winky face! 🙂 okay, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/30 "2010-05-27T17:13:21Z")
Semi-funny anecdote I may have told on this board before at some point, but it’s pertinent: PurpleMother: blahblah manipulative crap blah blah if you don’t call me I think you’re DEAD blahblahblah how will I know you’re aliiiiive blah blah but I’m your motherrrrrrr!! Purplehorseshoe: Look, I’m not going to listen to these guilt trips anymore. Stop trying to put me on a guilt trip! PurpleMother: I’m not trying to make you feel guilty! \ If you _were_ to feel guilty, though, then that would be a good thing … ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/31 "2010-05-27T17:13:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Make sure you get to keep the house in the divorce. She sold it when I was in Japan. Her apartment now is smaller than mine. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > The thing is, your mom may not even realize she’s being manipulative. I also have a very manipulative mother and she manages to convince herself quite thoroughly of her rightness every time she does something like that. Mom’s a very smart lady. I think, with enough people having told her she’s manipulative, on some level she must know it. She just doesn’t want to see herself that way. She’s rather play the martyr. > [@](#): > > When I attempt to reason with her, she either gets mad or starts crying. Is your mom the same? Yup. Although the mad and the crying are not always mutually exclusive. 😛 > [@](#): > > Also, do you have a landline? If so, why didn’t she just try your other number? No landline–no need for one. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/32 "2010-05-27T17:17:12Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > My custom user title is “Bad Mother,” so she was just teasing me. Hence the toungey-stickey-outey smiley. > > FWIW, I don’t consider myself a bad mother. It’s just a joke based on something hilarious that **Diosa** said in another thread. . . . but. . . you _are_ a bad mother 😕 😉 No, but really OP, your mom’s visiting crazy town. What everybody else said. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/33 "2010-05-27T17:20:51Z")
Four votes for “Your mom has a point, and she’s being reasonable.” Interesting that none of them seem to have posted to the thread–I wish they had. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/34 "2010-05-27T17:45:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Make sure you get to keep the house in the divorce. Just the house? Heck, she’s got to be sure she gets sole custody of herself. Otherwise she’ll be spending Wednesday nights & every other weekend at her mother’s whether she likes it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/35 "2010-05-27T18:01:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > My response would have been short, sweet and to the point. > > Dear Mom: The marriage issues that led to your divorce are not pertinent here, sorry. You gave me very little lead time to an event you wanted me to attend. I was honest with you, and told you unfortunately I would not be able to do so, not enough lead time, sorry. I am not going to apologize for not checking my phone messages on your schedule, by the time I received them, the time had already passed. Of course, you are free to read into, this simple chain of events anything you please, but that’s on you, not me. But since we’re being all psychological, let’s not forget that when a person says ‘no’ to someone, and they refuse to hear it, they are trying to manipulate that person. It’s the first rule of manipulation, I think it’s in the textbooks. If you don’t believe me, give Jay a call and see what he has to say. I am sorry to have disappointed you, by being unable, on short notice, to attend this event. And that’s all I can really say about this matter. Hope you’re feeling better soon, your loving daughter… My response would have been a bit shorter. \*Dear mom: Sorry I missed the event. Like I said, I couldn’t make it. Love ya!\* Regards. Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/36 "2010-05-27T18:17:40Z")
> [@HelloNinja](#): > > Your mom divorced your dad because he made too much noise when he got home? > > I don’t think you’re the one w/ a problem here. Agreed, your mom sounds like she needs (better) psychiatric help. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/37 "2010-05-27T18:29:15Z")
Good thing I don’t have a cell phone ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/38 "2010-05-27T18:32:24Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > Another vote for being manipulative. > > The thing is, your mom may not even realize she’s being manipulative. I also have a very manipulative mother and she manages to convince herself quite thoroughly of her rightness every time she does something like that. When I attempt to reason with her, she either gets mad or starts crying. Is your mom the same? That’s my mom to a ‘t’. On the other hand, is there no one reading this who thinks the Dad was a little Passive-Aggressive as well? I agree with the marriage counselor that his continued noise in the middle of the night despite mom’s careful explanation of how it disturbed her and how she felt about it, was certainly sending a message that she didn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/39 "2010-05-27T18:41:11Z")
Eh, you’re just not that into her. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948/40 "2010-05-27T18:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=Mom] So, Meg – what does this tell me? [/QUOTE] One thing that I eventually came to regret about my relationship with my dad until a couple of years ago – I’m the same age as you are – is that I always used to let this sort of rhetoric slide. Because I don’t know, what _does_ it tell you, Mom? It’s hard for me to say whether she has a point or not, since I could see different circumstances making it more or less reasonable for you to have returned the calls, but it’s pretty easy to see that this is a horribly manipulative way to present it either way. It’s a good trick, too, because if you want to call her on it you’re the one who has to choose the phrase to express the sentiment “daughter is being reckless and ignoring mom’s feelings in exactly the same way that dad was acting which required mom to divorce him,” which puts you in a weak position. Fuck that shit, is what I’m thinking. If she wants you to know, she should tell you what exactly the fact that, after telling her you’d be unavailable during this time period, you were unavailable, means to her. The potential benefit, especially if as others have suggested, this is a kind of unthinking process that your mom has never much examined, is that maybe she actually gives a thoughtful answer, in which case it’s a problem you can fix, as opposed to an amorphous guilt monster without a face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-being-overly-manipulative/540948.md?page=3)