# Is this cartoon racist (Tennis). **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230 "2018-09-12T17:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/21 "2018-09-12T17:41:34Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Why do you need to draw a caricature? What point do the large lips and ugly depiction make that the drawing in the cartoon I posted does not make? There are two purposes to a caricature - to make the person identifiable, which Serena clearly is in the cartoon I linked, and to exaggerate an aspect of their appearance to make a point. What point is made by making her look like a racist stereotype from a hundred years ago? You don’t need to draw a caricature at any point in time. However, that’s what many choose to do. Why? To ridicule a target. Ridicule is perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/22 "2018-09-12T17:43:34Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Why do you need to draw a caricature? What point do the large lips and ugly depiction make that the drawing in the cartoon I posted does not make? There are two purposes to a caricature - to make the person identifiable, which Serena clearly is in the cartoon I linked, and to exaggerate an aspect of their appearance to make a point. What point is made by making her look like a racist stereotype from a hundred years ago? :dubious: The real woman does in fact have large lips. Like Obama had big ears or Nixon heavy jowls. It’s more offensive to try and avoid drawing them, since you seem to be suggesting that there is something wrong with having big lips. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/23 "2018-09-12T17:44:01Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > If you want to use a term like “good”, who was quiet during the whole match, and who wasn’t? As for her being depicted as blonde and white, in the cartoon Osaka’s skin tone is very similar to Williams, and _her ponytail is **blonde in real life!** _. And look at actual photos of Williams from the day. She had frizzy hair, she is very muscular and not depicted as fat, screamed at the judge more than once, and the exaggeration of her features is typical of caricature. Linking good to quiet with regards to women just opened another can of worms. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/24 "2018-09-12T17:44:33Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Why do you need to draw a caricature? What point do the large lips and ugly depiction make that the drawing in the cartoon I posted does not make? There are two purposes to a caricature - to make the person identifiable, which Serena clearly is in the cartoon I linked, and to exaggerate an aspect of their appearance to make a point. What point is made by making her look like a racist stereotype from a hundred years ago? One doesn’t _need_ to draw a caricature, but one should be able to. And look at Serena’s lips. You wouldn’t describe them as exactly thin, would you? They are exaggerated a bit, but not unreasonably so. And there is another point to caricature (and probably others): to mock someone for their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/25 "2018-09-12T17:47:23Z")
What’s the excuse for depicting Naomi Osaka, a Japanese American, as a blonde? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/26 "2018-09-12T17:47:26Z")
Of course it’s racist - both in the caricaturing of Serena and the weird whitewashing of Naomi Osaka. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/27 "2018-09-12T17:47:37Z")
Man, I wish someone would respond to the ridiculous idea that Osaka was depicted as a blond, white woman. I’ve pointed that out here and elsewhere, but nothing so far. Oh well, the thread is still young. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/28 "2018-09-12T17:48:37Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Of course it’s racist - both in the caricaturing of Serena and the weird whitewashing of Naomi Osaka. Please see what I said above and respond. Thanks! Posts #20 and #4. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/29 "2018-09-12T17:48:52Z")
If anything the artist went out of his way to link it to the specific event, Serena is depicted wearing the exact same dress she wore for the match, as opposed to a generic tennis outfit and Naomi looks just like she actually did, but some people see “blonde hair”…and lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/30 "2018-09-12T17:50:02Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Why do you need to draw a caricature? What point do the large lips and ugly depiction make that the drawing in the cartoon I posted does not make? There are two purposes to a caricature - to make the person identifiable, which Serena clearly is in the cartoon I linked, and to exaggerate an aspect of their appearance to make a point. What point is made by making her look like a racist stereotype from a hundred years ago? You draw a caricature because that is what you do in cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/31 "2018-09-12T17:51:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Linking good to quiet with regards to women just opened another can of worms. 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/32 "2018-09-12T17:51:29Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > What’s the excuse for depicting Naomi Osaka, a Japanese American, as a blonde? Because errr, that would be the hair colour and style the current US Open champion wore during the match in [question.](https://www.sbnation.com/tennis/2018/9/8/17835482/us-open-tennis-results-2018-womens-title-naomi-osaka-serena-williams) ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/33 "2018-09-12T17:54:57Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > One doesn’t _need_ to draw a caricature, but one should be able to. And look at Serena’s lips. You wouldn’t describe them as exactly thin, would you? They are exaggerated a bit, but not unreasonably so. And there is another point to caricature (and probably others): to mock someone for their behavior. I didn’t say you shouldn’t draw a caricature, I said you shouldn’t draw a racist one. And if the point is to mock her for her behavior, then depict the behavior - screaming, crying, jumping up and down - without drawing her using racist stereotypes. I found two more caricatures of Serena that are [accurate](https://www.greghalbert.com/serena-williams-caricature/), but [not racist](https://www.caglecartoons.com/viewimage.asp?ID=%7B7787210C-F287-4613-BE82-D6B1C012E92C%7D). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/34 "2018-09-12T17:56:05Z")
So is the argument in this thread that racist caricatures are impossible because all caricatures are fair game? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/35 "2018-09-12T17:56:30Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If anything the artist went out of his way to link it to the specific event, Serena is depicted wearing the exact same dress she wore for the match, as opposed to a generic tennis outfit and Naomi looks just like she actually did, but some people see “blonde hair”…and lose it. To an extent I can see why, because when I first saw the cartoon the same thought entered my head. But then, I remembered that I really had no memory of what Osaka looked like, being only vaguely familiar with her, so I went back and looked at photos from the match. :smack: Oh my, what do you know? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/36 "2018-09-12T18:01:56Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I didn’t say you shouldn’t draw a caricature, I said you shouldn’t draw a racist one. And if the point is to mock her for her behavior, then depict the behavior - screaming, crying, jumping up and down - without drawing her using racist stereotypes. > > I found two more caricatures of Serena that are [accurate](https://www.greghalbert.com/serena-williams-caricature/), but [not racist](https://www.caglecartoons.com/viewimage.asp?ID=%7B7787210C-F287-4613-BE82-D6B1C012E92C%7D). I like 'em both. Knight’s is no closer to racism than these. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity here, so I suppose we will never agree on this. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/37 "2018-09-12T18:02:36Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I didn’t say you shouldn’t draw a caricature, I said you shouldn’t draw a racist one. And if the point is to mock her for her behavior, then depict the behavior - screaming, crying, jumping up and down - without drawing her using racist stereotypes. > > I found two more caricatures of Serena that are [accurate](https://www.greghalbert.com/serena-williams-caricature/), but [not racist](https://www.caglecartoons.com/viewimage.asp?ID=%7B7787210C-F287-4613-BE82-D6B1C012E92C%7D). That’s a positive caricature. The one in the OP is a negative one. Are you suggesting that only positive ones should be permitted, otherwise all racist? Moving sports, from soccer, [is this caricature racist?](http://omarmomani.blogspot.com/2014/10/madrid-take-bite-out-of-suarez.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/38 "2018-09-12T18:07:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > That’s a positive caricature. The one in the OP is a negative one. Are you suggesting that only positive ones should be permitted, otherwise all racist? > > Moving sports, from soccer, [is this caricature racist?](http://omarmomani.blogspot.com/2014/10/madrid-take-bite-out-of-suarez.html) Exactly. If exaggerated features were the only important thing, those would be racist as hell. Edit: okay, not to that degree, but certainly approaching racism. But of course, that isn’t the only thing to consider. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/39 "2018-09-12T18:07:25Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > What’s the excuse for depicting Naomi Osaka, a Japanese American, as a blonde? Did you not see a photo of her before that comment? She has a lightened pony tail. > [@begbert2](#): > > So is the argument in this thread that racist caricatures are impossible because all caricatures are fair game? No. I wouldn’t go that far. Stick a bone in her nose and have her near a cannibal pot and yes I’d be saying that’s probably racist. But an exaggerated depiction as caricatures are always done? No. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/40 "2018-09-12T18:08:29Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > That’s how I feel. How do you draw a caricature of an athletic black woman without making her appear athletic and black? This isn’t athletic and black, its fat with aunt Jemima lips. As an alternative consider [this](https://www.toonpool.com/cartoons/Serena%20Williams_251537) or [this](https://www.graphicnews.com/en/pages/21407/TENNIS-Serena-Williams-2007-caricature) or [this.](https://www.greghalbert.com/serena-williams-caricature/) They are black, athletic, angry, clearly recognizable as Serena but to my eye at least do a better job of actually characterizing her, rather that just being stereo typical angry fat black woman with the addition of serena’s frizzy pony tail to make it recognizable as her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230.md?page=3)