# Is this cartoon racist (Tennis). **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230 "2018-09-12T17:02:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/161 "2018-09-13T09:38:43Z")
> [@blob](#): > > (Andrew Bolt is a racist knob.) Knob is far too kind a descriptor, but again, we are getting away from the topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/162 "2018-09-13T09:45:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Easily](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/75/3e/0c753e5a778bbb2c71ec1db775bf1051.jpg). > > It helps if you have big ole jug-ears to work with, of course… Sadly, I had a hard time deciding that Obama’s drawing was not very flattering but not racist either. Maybe the artist took greater care, unlike the very rudimentary style used for Serena. I wouldn’t say it’s easy, especially for Obama. The most “African” rendering of him I can find is [this](http://freemanartist.com/2011/11/caricatures/). [This](http://www.cakefx.com/obama_cake.html) rendering of Obama is full of flattery. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/163 "2018-09-13T09:46:52Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > If one cannot lampoon black people by the same ‘standards’ as white people (dramatically accentuating features etc) then you are censoring the cartoonists and I think that sets a rather uncomfortable precedent. White cartoonists can freely lampoon black people to the same standards as white people just as soon as anti-black racism is over. Not before. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/164 "2018-09-13T09:55:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > White cartoonists can freely lampoon black people to the same standards as white people just as soon as anti-black racism is over. Not before. Really? So no cartoons of any person of colour until some arbitrary time that racism disappears from the face of the earth? You might want to think that proposal over again. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/165 "2018-09-13T10:00:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > White cartoonists can freely lampoon black people to the same standards as white people just as soon as anti-black racism is over. Not before. He speaks truth! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/166 "2018-09-13T10:05:22Z")
I don’t like doing this but I feel I need to–I take back my opinion that the cartoon is not racist. After I wrote my first response I read the rest of the thread. I had the Serena cartoon open in another window and I kept glancing at it as I re-read people’s posts. After a minute or five I didn’t want to look at it anymore. Her (cartoon) face was repugnant to me. It felt and looked weird–it was now hard to look at. And ya know? I went and looked at more photographs of her… I now just can’t see how one could justify putting such huge lips on SW in the cartoon. Even if it’s supposed to be “comic exaggeration”, they’re just too big for that. They look like those big wax clown lips you would wear on Halloween. Ridiculous. So, yeah. I did a 180. So sue me. Have to call it like I see it–even if I flip-flopped inside of 30 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/167 "2018-09-13T10:11:02Z")
> [@Sloe\_Moe](#): > > Of the four only The Marx book is a college-level read. Not Charlotte’s Web? I swear I remember reading that in grad school… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/168 "2018-09-13T10:13:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Blackface is caricature. Pickaninnies are caricatures. Mammy is a caricature. Gollywogs are caricatures. Nazi depictions of Jews were caricature. Wartime depictions of Tojo were caricatures > > Something can be both a caricature _and_ racist. True. This on the other hand is not. Due to referencing a particular person and event. Context matters. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/169 "2018-09-13T10:18:28Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Even if it’s supposed to be “comic exaggeration”, they’re just too big for that. They look like those big wax clown lips you would wear on Halloween. Ridiculous. Did you see the nose he put on Julia Gillard in the link posted to his other cartoons? That one’s ridiculous too, that exaggeration just doesn’t open him up to the same racist backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/170 "2018-09-13T10:23:50Z")
I still don’t get how a tiny shift in a curving line, in a drawing that’s inherently crude and rudimentary, can be judged as racist. Is it more a case of having malicious intent than poor artistry? Serena has her good shots. But there are photos of her that are downright ugly, and it’s usually when she’s flying off the handle. So is it racist to aggravate pictures like these using free-hand? [![](https://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period2/2018/09/13/Photos/Leisure/Serena-Williams-kMaE--621x414@LiveMint.JPG) ](https://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621x414/LiveMint/Period2/2018/09/13/Photos/Leisure/Serena-Williams-kMaE--621x414@LiveMint.JPG) [http://coretvnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/serena-williams-angry-.jpg](http://coretvnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/serena-williams-angry-.jpg) > **[Kapital971.com - Blog Informasi Terlengkap & Terpercaya](http://kapital971.com)** > > Kapital971.com merupakan sebuah situs berita informasi terlengkap dengan sumber yang terpercaya. I must say, though, that these are just three I found ugly out of dozens if pictures of her angry. In most cases, she looks composed and projects considerable power. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/171 "2018-09-13T10:23:57Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Really? So no cartoons of any person of colour until some arbitrary time that racism disappears from the face of the earth? I _know_ you’re actually literate enough to have read the qualifiers I put in there, which you’ve left out in constructing this particular strawman. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/172 "2018-09-13T10:25:28Z")
> [@blob](#): > > Did you see the nose he put on Julia Gillard in the link posted to his other cartoons? That one’s ridiculous too, that exaggeration just doesn’t open him up to the same racist backlash. Exactly. And that’s why I maintain that the comic was not racist. Knight does it to everyone, white, black AND ranga. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/173 "2018-09-13T10:27:26Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Knight does it to everyone, white, black AND ranga. and whatever Tony Abbott is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/174 "2018-09-13T10:29:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > True. This on the other hand is not. Due to referencing a particular person and event. Tojo wasn’t a _particular_ person? “Oh, no, I exaggerated the _same_ physical features, in the _same_ way, as countless racist cartoonists historically have done. Nobody doubts those are racist. But mine’s not racist because it’s a named individual at a named event” is not a very convincing defence. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/175 "2018-09-13T11:05:31Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > What the Herald Sun publishes or doesn’t publish is not necessarily germane to the question asked in this GQ thread which was, DID MARK KNIGHT draw a racist pic of Serena Williams? …we aren’t in GQ. We are in GD. There isn’t a GQ answer to that question. > [@](#): > > **Banquet Bear** , all the stuff you mentioned in your previous post is absolutely true, but I don’t think it has any bearing on the issue here. YMMV of course. I think it has everything to do with the issue. I don’t think you Australia’s history with racism, the obliviosness of the cartoonist and the response by the Herald Sun to the cartoon. > [@](#): > > My current stand is that the cartoon was not racist. If one cannot lampoon black people by the same ‘standards’ as white people (dramatically accentuating features etc) But was it lampooned to the same standards of white people though? To measure that standard I think you would have to be able to point to some historical racist examples of cartoons or caricatures of white people, or of Asian people. What features did they dramatically accentuate in order to make it racist? For Jewish people it might be the depiction of the nose. For Asian people it might be the depiction of the eyes. I think a racist depiction of Jewish people or Asian people would be pretty crystal clear. And if Knight had drawn cartoons with exaggerated noses or eyes then he would be getting called out for that as well. Only if that were to happen I don’t think the Herald Sun would be putting up such a vigorous defense. Because they couldn’t hide behind the umbrella of ambiguity. But IMHO there isn’t any ambiguity. That cartoon was racist as fuck. > [@](#): > > then you are censoring the cartoonists and I think that sets a rather uncomfortable precedent. I have seen very few calls for censorship. People have seen the cartoon and many people think its disgusting, distasteful and racist. And they are calling it out. Is that not a correct response? Should people just keep their mouths shut? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/176 "2018-09-13T11:10:33Z")
You are comparing Serena Williams to a convicted War criminal and leader of a great power? Fuck sake dude. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/177 "2018-09-13T11:41:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Easily](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/75/3e/0c753e5a778bbb2c71ec1db775bf1051.jpg). > > It helps if you have big ole jug-ears to work with, of course… Do you have some examples of caricatures of black people being depicted as doing something negative that aren’t racist? Then you explain specifically how the exaggerations in those caricatures are not racist, but the exaggerations in the Williams cartoon are. TIA. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/178 "2018-09-13T12:29:44Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You are comparing Serena Williams to a convicted War criminal and leader of a great power? No. I’m comparing _caricatures_ of one with _caricatures_ of the other. Wait, are you saying it’s _OK_ to be racist if the target’s evil? _Fuck’s sake, dude._ > [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have some examples of caricatures of black people being depicted as doing something negative that aren’t racist? n Could you tell me why, exactly, I’m supposed to keep running alongside as you move these posts? TIA. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/179 "2018-09-13T12:57:04Z")
Yes, it’s racist, and this is a good explanation of why it is racist: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah. Besides the big-minstrel-lips feature, it’s a bit peculiar to show such an exaggerated contrast between the figures of Williams as huge-hulking-fatass and Osaka as slender-tall-pointynose. As you can see from [these photographs](http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/tennis/news/serena-williams-vs-naomi-osaka-us-open-2018-results-final-grand-slam-flushing-meadows/1wlf2ahq5brua1wxh26rzbog3q), Williams and Osaka are actually quite similar in height and figure (and Osaka’s nose isn’t really any more prominent than Williams’s). > > A casual glance at that cartoon without knowing the athletes involved would certainly give the impression, IMHO, that it’s contrasting a fat black woman with a skinny white one. That it’s negative isn’t the point; it goes way past generalized caricature and incorporates several common racist stereotypical representations of black women. That said, IMO the “Tyron Woodley Test” is fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![GoPostie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@GoPostie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoPostie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230/180 "2018-09-13T13:27:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That it’s negative isn’t the point; it goes way past generalized caricature and incorporates several common racist stereotypical representations of black women. Does it? Educated us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-cartoon-racist-tennis/821230.md?page=10)