That comment is in regard to whatever RTFirefly might respond with, should he chose to do so, in regards to specific reasons he may have to support his contention that the cartoon is racist. Short of that, or new arguments made by others, I in fact don’t intend to continue the discussion. I’ve said my piece.
As for the rest of your post, you have conveniently left out specific, credible arguments against the racism accusation, while pretending that the only other relevant comments are about bones through noses, or god-emperors of racism, whatever the hell they are. Finally, I don’t intend to go back through the thread and quote better, “non-poor” responses here, but I think if you do, you will surely find some.
There’s some side discussion about whether or not Naomi Osaka was caricatured in a racist manner (general consensus: no) and whether the Tyron Woodley test makes certain people feel uncomfortable (general consensus: yes). Nothing specific or credible disputing the racism accusation in question except perhaps the claim that it’s impossible to caricature people with thick lips. (That’s specific argument, though not a credible one.)
In keeping with my statement, I’ve already said where I stand on Osaka (post #4). I read and responded to the first Tyron Woodley post, found it ridiculous, and haven’t read anything else regarding it. Arguments have been made disputing the racism. I think many are credible, and you do not. Fair enough, but we have nothing more to discuss about that then, do we?
Yes, I think this is a perfect explanation of why that caricature feels racist. Is “large lips” a defining feature of Serena? She does not strike me as having unusually large lips for a black woman, no; nor even relative to most white women for that matter. So that’s a caricature of a generic stereotypical black woman, not Serena. The face bears no resemblance at all.
The artist might argue that he exaggrated the mouth because of the “baby tantrum” aspect, but even if that’s the intent, the effect is a racist stereotype.
I certainly agree that nobody who is for some reason defending this obviously racist caricature will change their stated opinions due to argument on some dumb message board.
Except for Delayed Reflex, who is apparently a very calm and reasonable person.
Honestly, I’m not getting it. The linked caricature being spoken of here as a “non-racist” version does NOT look any different to me, sans the obviously-the-point tantrum being thrown.
If they don’t want to offend people, then yes, they should pay at least some attention to whether they’re creating content that seems likely to generate offense.
What I’ve gleaned from this thread does not suggest to me that the creator of this work wanted to avoid offending. What publication did this appear in again?
Yeah, it’s a question of what audience reaction you’re going for. If you want the reaction to be “ha, look at Serena Williams’ silly behavior” without being significantly diluted by “geez, that caricature of Williams looks like a racist stereotype”, then it’s a good idea to avoid stereotypically racist visual features in your drawing.
In keeping with my previous statement, I am not going to continue with this discussion unless someone offers a new argument as to why the cartoon may be described as racist. And why should I, when lots of people here are exactly as you say, who will never be convinced of anything, or if they are, will never admit it publicly. I wish there were more like me here who do that.
I’m not sure whether you’re being serious or sarcastic. In case it’s the former…Of course it is. Witness the overwhelming majority of political cartoons of Barack Obama during his presidency. Caricature exaggerates a subject’s most distinctive features. In Obama, that meant his ears. I guess if one sees all Black subjects as having the Jim Crow era stereotype of wide lips, enormous mouths, etc. regardless of the individual, than it’d probably be tough to discern racism in the Australian cartoon.
The Australian cartoon exaggerates only two of Williams’ physical features: her lips and her hair, neither of which is her most distinctive feature. And her lips are enormously exaggerated, much like the images in Jim Crow era cartoons. Compare it to this caricature of Williams, where her facial shape and musculature are exaggerated.
Actually, she does not, and they’re certainly not her most distinctive feature. Her facial shape and musculature are much more distinctive. And the Australian cartoon enormously exaggerates them, the way Jim Crow era cartoons did. The only way you know it’s supposed to be Williams is the distinctive outfit. Here again is the link I posted in my reply to Shodan. The difference between this cartoon and the Australian one is striking.
I suppose if someone really did have the stereotypical features, then the cartoonist would be on dangerous ground with a caricature. But if he’s not a good enough artist to express himself without portraying a racist stereotype, the world does not owe him a solution to that problem.
And again, that’s not applicable here. Serena’s defining features are not stereotypical.
That still looks racist (or at least, racially cringey) to me.
OTOH I don’t think the Tyron Woodley test is reasonable. I don’t believe black people are necessarily the arbiters of what’s racist, any more than women are the arbiters of what’s sexist (many of the latter, for instance, are getting it wrong as concerns the U.S. Open chair umpire). It’s sometimes easier to see these things clearly from outside the group most affected.
It is undeniable that her lips as drawn in the cartoon are larger than they are in real life when she isn’t shouting. I don’t think the lips as drawn in the cartoon are exaggerated to a racist extent when compared with the first image. However, if it happened that the artist drew her accurately while shouting and thought, no, that’s not racist or offensive enough, let me make her lips bigger, than that would certainly be evidence of racism. As I can’t know that, I draw no inferences from these pictures.
