# Is this chiropractor a charlatan? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407 "2017-01-17T19:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/21 "2017-01-18T01:35:38Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > **Is this chiropractor a charlatan?** > > The fact that you’re asking the question answers it. “I have cancer. My doctor says that radiation will cure it, but I’ve read several reputable sources that say that radiation CAUSES cancer. Is my doctor a charlatan?” “The fact that you’re asking the question answers it.” or “My doctor says that leeches are actually beneficial in certain circumstances. But I thought that science discredited the use of leeches centuries ago. Besides, they look nasty. Is my doctor a charlatan?” “The fact that you’re asking the question answers it.” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/22 "2017-01-18T02:19:36Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > “I have cancer. My doctor says that radiation will cure it, but I’ve read several reputable sources that say that radiation CAUSES cancer. Is my doctor a charlatan?” > “The fact that you’re asking the question answers it.” > > or > > “My doctor says that leeches are actually beneficial in certain circumstances. But I thought that science discredited the use of leeches centuries ago. Besides, they look nasty. Is my doctor a charlatan?” > “The fact that you’re asking the question answers it.” Huh? I cannot discern a point here. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/23 "2017-01-18T04:59:03Z")
I would never regard a chiropractor as anything more than a physical therapist, if you do your as bigger fool as him, having said that I sometimes see a practitioner for two or three visits, never more or you need a different form of therapy. I understand what he aiming for with the poping table, I’ve studied chinese martial arts and we often apply a bit of force to take the slack out of joint before applying more force, it seems to work on my lower back pain instead of the standard rotation they perform. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/24 "2017-01-18T07:13:21Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Huh? I cannot discern a point here. I would have thought that the point was abundantly clear. Apparently not. The mere act of asking a certain question does not automatically mean that the question can be answered in the affirmative. Or to put it even more simply, just because somebody asks if a chiropractor is a charlatan does NOT automatically mean that he is one. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/25 "2017-01-18T13:05:32Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I would have thought that the point was abundantly clear. Apparently not. > > The mere act of asking a certain question does not automatically mean that the question can be answered in the affirmative. > > Or to put it even more simply, just because somebody asks if a chiropractor is a charlatan does NOT automatically mean that he is one. “Is this person who sent me an e-mail offering to release $5,000,000 from the Royal House of Nigeria to me a charlatan?” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/26 "2017-01-18T13:18:31Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I would have thought that the point was abundantly clear. Apparently not. > > The mere act of asking a certain question does not automatically mean that the question can be answered in the affirmative. > > Or to put it even more simply, just because somebody asks if a chiropractor is a charlatan does NOT automatically mean that he is one. No, it’s the fact that he’s a chiropractor that means that he is one. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/27 "2017-01-18T13:25:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No, it’s the fact that he’s a chiropractor that means that he is one. Just to qualify matters: I don’t believe this. If a chiro sticks to dealing with musculoskeletal complaints, is knowledgeable enough to know when he’s out of his depth, and avoids trashing useful medical interventions like vaccination, he (like physical therapists and massage therapists) can help some people with chronic pain. Unfortunately such chiros seem to be in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/28 "2017-01-18T14:28:03Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > DO as in Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine? That is medical school with virtually the same education and training given to MD’s. What’s with the “not even”? Some people believe that DOs are mostly Woo. I do not. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/29 "2017-01-18T14:32:30Z")
DOs are not mostly woo. But they’re MDs with completely unnecesary and counterproductive woo on top of their conventional MD-like scientific training. They have no advantages over MDs, but downsides that their practice originated off woo-like practices and still carries woo spinal manipulation in the training. DOs are also less prestigious and also tend to catch some of the people who didn’t quite get into MD school. So they’re doctors and 95%+ of what they do is normal doctor stuff, but what’s the point of even having them exist at this point? Take the MD when given an option. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/30 "2017-01-18T14:59:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just to qualify matters: I don’t believe this. > > If a chiro sticks to dealing with musculoskeletal complaints, is knowledgeable enough to know when he’s out of his depth, and avoids trashing useful medical interventions like vaccination, he (like physical therapists and massage therapists) can help some people with chronic pain. > > Unfortunately such chiros seem to be in the minority. Yes, there was a case in this area where a chiropractor tied to treat a head injury with _cranial manipulation_, or some such thing. The poor guy had an untreated subdural hematoma for 6 months before things got so bad he eventually got to a real doctor who performed emergency brain surgery to save his life. The MDs I’ve discussed this with are reluctant to completely trash Chiropractors, but when asked will tell you they much prefer massage therapist or physical therapist for back and neck pain. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/31 "2017-01-18T15:35:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > DOs are not mostly woo. But they’re MDs with completely unnecesary and counterproductive woo on top of their conventional MD-like scientific training. They have no advantages over MDs, but downsides that their practice originated off woo-like practices and still carries woo spinal manipulation in the training. > > DOs are also less prestigious and also tend to catch some of the people who didn’t quite get into MD school. > > So they’re doctors and 95%+ of what they do is normal doctor stuff, but what’s the point of even having them exist at this point? Take the MD when given an option. There is another meaning that I think a lot of people get mixed up. > **[Osteopathy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy)** > > Osteopathy, unlike osteopathic medicine, which is a branch of the medical profession in the United States, is a pseudoscientific system of alternative medicine that emphasizes physical manipulation of the body's muscle tissue and bones. In most countries, practitioners of osteopathy are not medically trained and are referred to as osteopaths. > Osteopathic manipulation is the core set of techniques in osteopathy. Parts of osteopathy, such as craniosacral therapy, have been described by Quackwat... > [@](#): > > In the United States, osteopathic physicians are trained and are certified to practice medicine. They represent a branch of medicine called Osteopathic Medicine. Osteopaths trained elsewhere are trained only in manual osteopathic treatment, generally to relieve muscular and skeletal conditions, and are referred to as osteopathic practitioners.[5][6][7] They are not allowed to call themselves Osteopaths in the United States to avoid confusion with certified physicians. In the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Australia and New Zealand osteopaths are registered and regulated by law as therapists but may not practice medicine (although Germany, like Canada, allows US-trained osteopathic physicians to practice). I’ve met Osteopaths, not DOs, who claim they are manipulating your internal organs through gentle massage. Oops, your liver is out of place. Shuffling it back will cure you! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/32 "2017-01-18T15:46:05Z")
I know this could vary from state to state in the US, but at least in Minnesota, chiropractic care can be covered by health insurance. Are health insurance companies required to cover chiropractic care? I know back before I knew better, I had a back ache and went not just to chiropractor but also an acupuncturist and both were covered by my insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/33 "2017-01-18T16:51:35Z")
> [@bluezooky](#): > > I would never regard a chiropractor as anything more than a physical therapist… If my wife, a PT, read that she would hunt you down and twist you in ways a chiro never even imagined. The two are not the same, not even close. Physical therapy is science based, main stream health care with [I would never regard a chiropractor as anything more than a physical therapist… [/QUOTE] "]rigorous post grad education requirements]( [QUOTE=bluezooky;19928799). > [@](#): > > The length of professional DPT programs is typically 3 years. Primary content areas in the curriculum may include, but are not limited to, biology/anatomy, cellular histology, physiology, exercise physiology, biomechanics, kinesiology, neuroscience, pharmacology, pathology, behavioral sciences, communication, ethics/values, management sciences, finance, sociology, clinical reasoning, evidence-based practice, cardiovascular and pulmonary, endocrine and metabolic, and musculoskeletal. In the PT world, being compared to a DC is tantamount to being called a charlatan. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/34 "2017-01-18T17:41:36Z")
Well, I hope your wife doesn’t get too mad if I mention Chiropractors actually have a fairly extensive education. My dad was an MD and while he never liked chiros, he had to admit they were well educated. > [@](#): > > The World Health Organization lists three potential educational paths involving full‐time chiropractic education around the globe. This includes: 1 – 4 years of pre-requisite training in basic sciences at university level followed by a 4-year full‐time doctorate program; DC. A 5-year integrated bachelor degree; BSc (Chiro). A 2 - 3 year Master’s degree following the completion of a bachelor’s degree leads to the MSc (Chiro).[2] > **[Chiropractic education](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_education)** > > Chiropractic education trains students in chiropractic. The entry criteria, structure, teaching methodology and nature of chiropractic programs offered at chiropractic schools vary considerably around the world. Students are trained in academic areas including scopes of practice, neurology, radiology, microbiology, psychology, ethics, biology, gross anatomy, biochemistry, spinal anatomy and more. Prospective students are also usually trained in clinical nutrition, public health, pediatri The entr... ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/35 "2017-01-18T18:22:00Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I hope your wife doesn’t get too mad if I mention Chiropractors actually have a fairly extensive education. My dad was an MD and while he never liked chiros, he had to admit they were well educated. > > [Chiropractic education - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_education) Don’t Scientologists also have to take a lot of classes too? Well-educated doesn’t necessarily equate to being educated well. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/36 "2017-01-18T18:25:13Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The mere act of asking a certain question does not automatically mean that the question can be answered in the affirmative. Or to put it even more simply, just because somebody asks if a chiropractor is a charlatan does NOT automatically mean that he is one. Agreed, but that wasn’t my point. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Is this person who sent me an e-mail offering to release $5,000,000 from the Royal House of Nigeria to me a charlatan?” Bingo. My point was that in this particular case, which happens to involve a chiropractor, the behavior is setting off the OP’s warning lights, which he/she is responding to by posting the question. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just to qualify matters: I don’t believe this. > If a chiro sticks to dealing with musculoskeletal complaints, is knowledgeable enough to know when he’s out of his depth, and avoids trashing useful medical interventions like vaccination, he (like physical therapists and massage therapists) can help some people with chronic pain. > Unfortunately such chiros seem to be in the minority. This is exactly how I see it as well, based on my considerable experience with several different chiro’s when I was much younger. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/37 "2017-01-18T18:36:44Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Don’t Scientologists also have to take a lot of classes too? Well-educated doesn’t necessarily equate to being educated well. Correct, not necessarily but in this case chiros are actually well educated in anatomy, biology and physiology. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/38 "2017-01-18T19:16:41Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, I hope your wife doesn’t get too mad if I mention Chiropractors actually have a fairly extensive education. My dad was an MD and while he never liked chiros, he had to admit they were well educated. > > [Chiropractic education - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_education) From that very link (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > In 1997, American chiropractic schools tended to have lower entry requirements than medical or dental schools.[41] In 2005, **only one chiropractic college required a bachelor’s degree** as an admission requirement.[42] :dubious: I would not classify that as “well educated.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/39 "2017-01-18T19:33:45Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > From that very link (bolding mine): > > :dubious: > > I would not classify that as “well educated.” A physio degree is basically a Master’s degree, up until a few years ago (in Canada at least) it was a simple bachelor’s degree. If you go to Chiro school for 4 years it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to be able to be well educated, despite not having a bachelor’s. I get not trusting them, but don’t fall into the trap that they must also be stupid/ignorant/uneducated for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407/40 "2017-01-18T19:44:03Z")
Being educated in nonsense does not make you educated. I could devise a 7 year course on healing crystals - how their magic works, how different crystals have different properties, how you shape them, how you apply them to cure various diseases - and yet despite the amount of time spent in my school no one would actually be educated, and allowing people who graduated my school to call themselves “doctors” would be a huge insult to people with a real education. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-chiropractor-a-charlatan/777407.md?page=3)