# Is this dirty? (female symbol with a fist in it) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334 "2010-01-09T23:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/21 "2010-01-10T03:40:46Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > I’ve seen that symbol for most of my adult life, and never once ever thought of it in a sexual way. Ever. I’m a man. There are few things I don’t think of in a sexual context. > [@](#): > > Mainly because I’d never heard of fisting until that symbol had been around for 20 years. And even then, I never tried to put those two together in my mind…doesn’t actually make any sense in the context, anyhow. I depends on your social circle then. I was quite aware of the practice in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/22 "2010-01-10T03:45:01Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > What’s the difference? Obscure means no one has heard of it. Dated means it’s less familiar to folks under 30. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/23 "2010-01-10T04:12:26Z")
Man. I’d never seen that episode. Daria’s characteristic deadpan is overdone here. She shouldn’t sound like text-to-speech computer program. She’s just supposed to sound emotionally flat. The monotone should only be used for her sarcastic wit. Oh, yeah–we were talking about the symbol: It was described as “not getting their message across.” I’ve heard that sort of thing being used as a setup for a double entendre before. I guess it would depend on whether the character “Ms. Varcha” is known for being too much of a feminist, as the setup is obviously supposed to be a joke of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/24 "2010-01-10T09:55:39Z")
Too much of a feminist? Wanting economic, social, and political equality for both genders too much? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/25 "2010-01-10T10:11:55Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Too much of a feminist? Wanting economic, social, and political equality for both genders too much? No, over-inclined to lay all the world’s ills at the feet of men, speaking of men as if they were some kind of inferior species, talking and acting as though all male-female sex was rape, &c. If you want to play No True Feminist, good luck to you, but I’ve seen plenty of “too much of a feminist” literature, and it’s all been unironically stacked in the Women’s Studies section of the bookshop. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/26 "2010-01-10T10:34:41Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, over-inclined to lay all the world’s ills at the feet of men, speaking of men as if they were some kind of inferior species, talking and acting as though all male-female sex was rape, &c. If you want to play No True Feminist, good luck to you, but I’ve seen plenty of “too much of a feminist” literature, and it’s all been unironically stacked in the Women’s Studies section of the bookshop. Two words - Andrea Dworkin. She, as much as anyone in history, is the reason so many women who might otherwise identify as “feminist”, do not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/27 "2010-01-10T12:14:10Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > She, as much as anyone in history, is the reason so many women who might otherwise identify as “feminist”, do not. She’s also pretty persuasive for men who might consider themselves feminist, as is her partner-in-lunacy the recently departed Mary Daly. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/28 "2010-01-10T16:03:28Z")
> [@](#): > > She’s also pretty persuasive for men who might consider themselves feminist, as is her partner-in-lunacy the recently departed Mary Daly. [Meh](http://home.earthlink.net/~ahunter/RFvSoc/power.html) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/29 "2010-01-10T16:24:52Z")
Thanks for the responses, all…no, I’d never seen the fist in female symbol before. I’ve seen the fist and the female symbol separately but never combined. The character of Ms. Barsch is definitely meant to be uber feminist, “Men suck,” (mainly because of her ex leaving her for a younger woman). ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/30 "2010-01-10T18:48:54Z")
I don’t even get how it is a double entendre. Is fisting something that is associated with lesbians? I actually didn’t even realize that. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/31 "2010-01-10T19:09:35Z")
It would no more occur to me that it’s a double entendre than the peace sign is. Is that at all grammatical? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/32 "2010-01-10T19:31:20Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > [Meh](http://home.earthlink.net/~ahunter/RFvSoc/power.html) “My paper is my cite”? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/33 "2010-01-10T19:50:40Z")
It’s not a **double entendre** any more than any juxtiposition of two symbols that could be interpreted sexually is, which can occur with many things in the minds of a lot of people. It might be interpreted to mean “fisting” if there were some reason to believe that the fist was in a vagina, but unless any combination of a fist with something having to do with a woman should be considered a reference to “fisting,” someone interpreting the symbol that way is simply projecting their own fascination with sex onto the symbol. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/34 "2010-01-10T20:38:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > “My paper is my cite”? The assertion was that she was “pretty persuasive for men who might consider themselves feminist”. 'Twould be kind of hard to do a statistical empirical study of us, but I do fall into the category that was pointed to. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/35 "2010-01-10T22:09:30Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I don’t even get how it is a double entendre. Is fisting something that is associated with lesbians? I actually didn’t even realize that. It isn’t really, except in that it’s a sex act that it’s possible for two women to perform together. In general I think someone looking to make a joke about lesbian sex would reference oral sex instead. > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > It might be interpreted to mean “fisting” if there were some reason to believe that the fist was in a vagina, but unless any combination of a fist with something having to do with a woman should be considered a reference to “fisting,” someone interpreting the symbol that way is simply projecting their own fascination with sex onto the symbol. 😉 If I were unfamiliar with the “woman power” symbol and thought it had something to do with a fist coming into contact with a woman’s body, I’d have to say it looks a lot more like a stick figure being punched in the face than it does any kind of sex act. As for the _Daria_ video, if there’s a deliberate joke here then it strikes me as more likely that we’re supposed to notice that the sign looks something like a stick figure making the “[bras d’honneur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras_d%27honneur)” or “[Up yours!](http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa020901u.htm)” gesture. This makes a lot more sense in context than a joke about how the teacher loves fisting. The clip shows the teacher walking into frame with the poster just after Jane says “I’d tell him [hypothetical teacher] right where to stick it.” So the sign could perhaps have a double meaning as both a protest symbol and a representation of the hand gesture that Jane would like to make. This would tie in with Daria urging Jane to carry through on her threat, like the sign is mocking her too. “Come on, do it! Put your hand up just like this and say ‘Up yours, teacher!’” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/36 "2010-01-10T22:22:37Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > it symbolizes the same thing mine does… resistance. So does [mine](http://facstaff.gpc.edu/~pgore/PhysicalScience/Martin/resistor_symbol.JPG). ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/37 "2010-01-10T22:41:53Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > It isn’t really, except in that it’s a sex act that it’s possible for two women to perform together. In general I think someone looking to make a joke about lesbian sex would reference oral sex instead. IINAL, but Susie Bright was the “Lesbian Sex Consultant” on the film _[Bound](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115736/)_. She was pretty insistent that the sex in the film between to two women be about hands rather than tongues. “Hands are like cock”. By the way, it’s official - [Larry Wachowski is now Lana](http://twitpic.com/skll8) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/38 "2010-01-10T23:23:14Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > IINAL, but Susie Bright was the “Lesbian Sex Consultant” on the film _[Bound](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115736/)_. She was pretty insistent that the sex in the film between to two women be about hands rather than tongues. “Hands are like cock”. Well, IAAL, not that this characteristic is necessary to understand that there’s a significant difference between _using_ your hands during sex and putting your _entire_ hand inside another woman’s vagina. The former must be almost universal among women who have sex with women. The latter is not. But my point wasn’t about actual lesbian sex anyway, but the kinds of jokes people make about lesbian sex. Jokes (and insults, e.g. “carpetmuncher”) about cunnilingus are much more common than jokes about fisting. That’s why I said “In general I think someone looking to make a joke about lesbian sex would reference oral sex instead.” With regard to the _Daria_ clip, I think it’s a reach to see any kind of lesbian sex joke there at all. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/39 "2010-01-10T23:44:15Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Well, IAAL, not that this characteristic is necessary to understand that there’s a significant difference between _using_ your hands during sex and putting your _entire_ hand inside another woman’s vagina. The former must be almost universal among women who have sex with women. The latter is not. Granted. > [@](#): > > But my point wasn’t about actual lesbian sex anyway, but the kinds of jokes people make about lesbian sex. Jokes (and insults, e.g. “carpetmuncher”) about cunnilingus are much more common than jokes about fisting. That’s why I said “In general I think someone looking to make a joke about lesbian sex would reference oral sex instead.” With regard to the _Daria_ clip, I think it’s a reach to see any kind of lesbian sex joke there at all. Sure, but this is _Daria_ we’re talking about, and the more insular and “in” the joke, the better. The writers would put things in that the general public, the censors and the viewers would not get just for the joy of putting one over on everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334/40 "2010-01-10T23:58:45Z")
People…the writer of _Daria_ was an editor for National Lampoon and _Beavis and Butthead_ and a writer for _Married with Children_. There is absolutely an intended sexual reference there, it’s an MTV program, that’s what they do. It’s absurd to think that it’s an accident, comedy is not happenstance, it’s purposely crafted in explicit detail. The fact that it’s somewhat obscure and subtle enough to fly under the censors’ radars is entirely the point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-dirty-female-symbol-with-a-fist-in-it/524334.md?page=3)