# Is this discrimination? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761 "2015-09-03T00:33:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/21 "2015-09-03T03:45:51Z")
> [@Elaine90](#): > > Thank you so much. I feel much better after reading your responses ^^ > I just want to say something. This isn’t my first time in the US. I lived in Seattle for 2 years and I got on busses all the time. As always I pull the ring to request a stop before the actual stop which I did today. I saw the sign next to the driver saying a stop requested. Then, I stood next to the door to get off when he stops. If he didn’t see the sign, he could feel someone is standing next to the door which is on his right. I only talked to the driver when he passed the stop. I know sometimes bus drivers forgot to stop, but when that happened to me before, they apologized to me and let me got off the bus in the next bus stop. None of them let me walk in the highways. They even told me where to stop to get on the next bus, which is too nice but is not expected cuz drivers are busy. From my experience in the US, American people are really friendly and like to communicate with people from other countries. But this driver was different. > Sorry if I confused you with my grammar mistakes and thank you again from that description it sounds like it is a bad bus driver (rare) or, they were simply distracted ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/22 "2015-09-03T05:41:17Z")
There is no question you had a rotten bus driver and you should have asked for his name and number so you could report him. If he refused try and get the number of the bus and the route so you can call and report him. That being said, I disagree with everyone else here and think he was being racist. The bus was not crowded and you made your request when you got on and again by ringing the bell and standing next to him at the door. How could he possibly not know to let you off? Further, I have traveled by bus from coast to coast, north and south and never head of any bus driver being permitted to allow you to disembark where there was no stop and never, never where there was no place for you to walk back. If you have to take this bus route to and from school I strongly suggest calling the transit authority and getting some of these questions answered. Why in God’s name did you ever choose New York? Good luck. (I am White and way past middle aged and I know racism when I see it and when I hear about it.) One more thought: All of today’s papers had an article in which it was alleged that over half of the recent immigrants in this country are on welfare. Maybe he was trying to discourage any more of it. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/23 "2015-09-03T05:51:56Z")
Or the OP boarded a “Limited” or “Express” bus and didn’t realize that it would not stop at every spot that a “Local” would. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/24 "2015-09-03T06:58:15Z")
Sometimes drivers zone out or something, I ride maxis daily which are basically small buses that have buzzer buttons by the seats you press for a stop. A couple times I have seen people push the button see the driver isn’t stopping and push again and even have to yell and the driver seemed like he snapped out of a daydream or something. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/25 "2015-09-03T11:17:45Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > There is no question you had a rotten bus driver and you should have asked for his name and number so you could report him. If he refused try and get the number of the bus and the route so you can call and report him. > > That being said, I disagree with everyone else here and think he was being racist. The bus was not crowded and you made your request when you got on and again by ringing the bell and standing next to him at the door. How could he possibly not know to let you off? Further, I have traveled by bus from coast to coast, north and south and never head of any bus driver being permitted to allow you to disembark where there was no stop and never, never where there was no place for you to walk back. > > If you have to take this bus route to and from school I strongly suggest calling the transit authority and getting some of these questions answered. > > Why in God’s name did you ever choose New York? Good luck. > > (I am White and way past middle aged and I know racism when I see it and when I hear about it.) > > One more thought: All of today’s papers had an article in which it was alleged that over half of the recent immigrants in this country are on welfare. Maybe he was trying to discourage any more of it. Why would you assume racism? Maybe he was sexist. Maybe he was oblivious. Maybe he hates his job and all the bus riders. Racism certainly could be to blame, but nothing actually suggests it besides the fact that he apparently did not appear to be the same race as the bus rider. If you mistreat someone who happens to be a different race than you is racism really always to blame in your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/26 "2015-09-03T14:11:08Z")
I’m an old, white, handicapped woman. A bus driver once didn’t stop for me on the highway at the bus stop, despite the fact that I pushed the stop button, stood up and told him “Next stop, please.” He just dropped me off a few yards above the stop, on the highway, and I had to walk back. A word of good advice: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/27 "2015-09-03T14:35:09Z")
It’s quite possible he was racist or sexist. He could have also just been a dick. Whatever it was, it doesn’t matter - he was rude. Racism isn’t always on my mind when someone is rude to me, only when they are polite to the white people around me and ignore me. Sometimes it’s just something you can’t express. I remember being in a pizza place once and watching as they helped every single white person around me and ignored me and my SO (both of us not white). If I posted that here, I’d get a thousand responses excusing their behavior and telling us how it wasn’t really racist, which is why I don’t really mention it. Fact is there are racist and sexist people in NYC. There are also rude people. **Elaine90** only you and the driver know which it really was. You could complain next time, but don’t cry over it - it won’t help. 🙂 If he was racist to you that reflects on him, not you. I know it’s easy for me to sit behind my keyboard and say that, but I have lived through it. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/28 "2015-09-03T14:52:27Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It’s quite possible he was racist or sexist. He could have also just been a dick. Whatever it was, it doesn’t matter - he was rude. > > Racism isn’t always on my mind when someone is rude to me, only when they are polite to the white people around me and ignore me. Sometimes it’s just something you can’t express. I remember being in a pizza place once and watching as they helped every single white person around me and ignored me and my SO (both of us not white). If I posted that here, I’d get a thousand responses excusing their behavior and telling us how it wasn’t really racist, which is why I don’t really mention it. > > Fact is there are racist and sexist people in NYC. There are also rude people. **Elaine90** only you and the driver know which it really was. You could complain next time, but don’t cry over it - it won’t help. 🙂 If he was racist to you that reflects on him, not you. I know it’s easy for me to sit behind my keyboard and say that, but I have lived through it. If they are treating people of one race differently than people of a different race, then attributing it to racism is logical. In your story, there were white people being attended to and non-whites being ignored, so quite likely bigotry was to blame. The bus rider made no mention of being singled out for poor treatment, so there is no real reason to assume any sort of racism was going on. Yes, it is a possible explanation, but it seems self-defeating to assume racism is behind every negative interaction between people of different races. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/29 "2015-09-06T20:49:49Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Yes, it is a possible explanation, but it seems self-defeating to assume racism is behind every negative interaction between people of different races. Don’t agree. It is what people already assume, and it means that even assholes are nicer to people of color, since they are more scared of being called racist than an asshole. I’m not saying that you can’t use more evidence to prove it isn’t racism, but I think it’s a valid first assumption if the issue is big enough. What I don’t know is how common this is–to know if this issue was big enough. I would assume it wasn’t common. I wouldn’t want to employ a driver who did this sort of thing. But I don’t live in New York, and where I do live barely has public transportation. If this is something he could lose his job over, I’d first assume racism. If not, then I wouldn’t. * * * And, yes, I know this is not the usual way to think, and I admit I don’t feel too strongly about this. But I will not shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/30 "2015-09-06T21:18:39Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I’m still not understanding about walking in the highway. What highway? The driver wouldn’t have just let you off randomly, there must have been a bus stop there. I don’t understand this part either, nor Elaine having to walk “through the trees”. Did the driver stop the bus in the middle of the block? In an intersection? On the FDR Drive in the center lane? In Central Park? Did Elaine ask for the bus to stop at a place where there was no scheduled stop, or did she pull a cord/ring for the next stop? How does she know what religion the bus driver adheres to? One solution would be to take the subway. A local should make all of its scheduled stops virtually 100% of the time and there’s usually no interaction with the operator. \*if New York bus drivers wanted to be mean to everyone with a different skin color/nationality they’d have to maintain a constant level of mean for almost their entire shift. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/31 "2015-09-06T22:39:31Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Too many times to count I’ve seen drivers seemingly space out a stop even when the bell rang requesting a stop and continue on forcing passengers to either get dropped off mid block or have to get off the next stop. I’ve also had drivers not say a word to me and generally act like I wasn’t there. > > Don’t take it personally. In every city in America, some public transit workers are just really bad at their jobs. And what they lack in attention to detail (or, you know, just plain _attention_) they make up for with surly to non-existent customer service skills. I’ve run across a few of those in Chicago – they’re jerks to everyone indiscriminately, simply because they want to do the bare minimum they can get away with and still collect a paycheck. There are also some who are amazing at their jobs, who take a great deal of pride in doing it well and cheerfully, and it shows. Hopefully you’ll meet one of those employees next. We’ve got one train operator here who cheers up all the tired evening rush commuters with pleasant banter over the intercom: “This is Belmont. Please let folks off first and watch your step. It’s Tremendous Tuesday and I hope you have a lovely evening. Thank you for riding the See. Tee. Ay!” ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/32 "2015-09-07T05:19:51Z")
The fact is there are a million different reasons something could happen, but the most logical answer is probably the correct one. In this case did the driver miss anyone else’s stop? The OP makes no mention of it. Did the driver do anything right and proper in his/her interaction with the OP? Did the OP mention any such behavior towards others? Maybe she left out pertinent information that could help us make a better decision, but she has lived in a big American city before and does not mention breaking down into tears at the first slight. Bus drivers have a great deal of leeway in how much they can get away with, especially in NYC with union support and no witnesses. My guess is that if it would even occur to you that it might be racism, it probably was. The pizza situation could have been explained by assuming that all of the other diners were regulars/friends of the staff and were used to getting special attention, while strangers of any complexion or nationality would be kept waiting. Of course our own experience tells us that this is probably not the case, just as it is not the case with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/33 "2015-09-07T12:19:17Z")
I think from the description we can’t tell if there was racism involved, and that people who could be subjected to racism are better at noticing or suspecting it, and that they come by that greater sensitivity for good reason. I’m left not knowing whether there was racism here or not, and very unwilling to say there wasn’t (or was). ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/34 "2015-09-07T13:24:26Z")
It seems to me he would want her off the bus quicker if he were racist. One of the black shuttle drivers where I work has a “thing” about all the Asian restaurant workers that ride the shuttle. One day they happened to get off closer to the front of the lot than usual, and I was the only other person on the bus. He expressed to me ( a white woman) his relief at them getting off and then clarified his displeasure with them: he just cannot bear the smell of cooking odors that clings to them at the end of the day. That’s when I noticed he has a huge can of air freshener in the cupholder. Since then he has grumbled to me about a guy wearing very strong cologne and someone carrying especially fragrant French fries in a large quantity. And the overly chatty casino workers. And the very boisterous basketball fans. And a very flirty white girl who was so obviously hitting on him that he was embarrassed. Turns out he’s just a curmudgeon with a scent intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/35 "2015-09-07T14:19:32Z")
First of all, there are rude people _everywhere_. Yes, even in cozy little Midwest hamlets. Yes, New Yorkers can be brusque and impatient. It’s a survival mechanism. But seriously. I really really really doubt this was racism. The OP doesn’t say what race she is, or what race the bus driver is, but no bus driver in NYC, unless s/he’s very new on the job, has come across a race that s/he hasn’t already dealt with a zillion times before. If they treated that same race rudely all the time, their asses would be called out on it. New York is one of the most diverse cities in the U.S. No race/religion comes as a huge surprise, and no one comes across more different races/religions/cultures/ages/gender designations than someone working in our public transportation system. Bus drivers get in a pretty focused mental state, and someone standing close to the driver won’t actually make much of a dent in it; people stand up on buses all the time, even in non-crowded buses, just because some people don’t like sitting for whatever reason. Drivers get used to ignoring such distractions in their peripheral vision, and generally pay no attention to them. The odd thing _is_ the reference to a highway. Which one? The FDR Drive? Queens Boulevard? (Not what I’d call a highway, but it is pretty busy and someone from a smaller place might consider it a highway.) Either way, wherever he dropped you off, I would guess with 99.9% certainty that it was a regular bus stop, with a sidewalk in immediate walking distance. Perhaps you might have been understandably confused as to where to go and ended up crossing an intersection that led to a non-sidewalked length of the roadway? I just don’t credit the idea that this driver stopped in the middle of nowhere just to be a dick. Bus drivers _never_ stop outside of mandated bus stops unless there’s some major emergency, a blizzard/flood going on, or roadwork. It’ll help if you tell us what highway / bus route you’re talking. (You don’t have to worry, NYC is so big there is no chance you’re giving away your identity!) ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/36 "2015-09-14T00:48:12Z")
All the busses I’ve ever been on had set stops, you don’t tell the bus when to stop the bus stops when it reaches it’s designated stops. Granted, most of the busses I’ve been on weren’t in NYC and the only busses I’ve ridden in NYC were tour busses. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/37 "2015-09-14T01:39:43Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > All the busses I’ve ever been on had set stops, you don’t tell the bus when to stop the bus stops when it reaches it’s designated stops. That’s not how it works on most city bus routes. If no one is standing at the bus stop and no one hits the stop request, the bus keeps going. There are bus stops every few blocks, and the bus routes would take much longer if they stopped at every marked stop. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/38 "2015-09-14T02:15:48Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I used to live in NYC and I miss it so much!!! This, a thousand times. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/39 "2015-09-17T05:10:33Z")
Not often, but enough that it’s far from unusual, the bus driver will stop but not press the button or whatever to open the back door/allow it t be opened (on some bus models I think this is automatic, avoiding that problem). Hanlon’s razor applies here though. ---
**Author:** ![brovolone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@brovolone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brovolone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2015, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761/40 "2015-09-17T06:19:52Z")
OP, you will probably look back at this post one day and find humor in it. Bless you, and good luck in NYC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-discrimination/729761.md?page=3)