I think you are missing what might be a more fundamental and permanent change in the content of American religious attitudes. In The Fourth Turning (Broadway, 1997), Neil Howe and William Strauss formed a theory that American culture goes through regular four-step cycles, the fourth step is an “awakening,” and the most recent “awakening” was the 1960s – just as much a spiritual “awakening” as any of the previous ones even though it was predominantly non-Christian, in some ways anti-Christian, in content. Which means our next “awakening” period might be less Christian still. See Strauss and Howe’s website, http://www.fourthturning.com/ – there’s a discussion blog.
I think a lot of us agree with BrainGlutton, we just aren’t willing to call a spade a spade for the reasons you just cited. The religous right is ignorant and backward as a general rule, but very well organized, so well organized that though they don’t have the numbers, they’ve definitely got the power.
A quote from St. Michael (Moore) sums up the current situation well: “I hear all these people on the right and in the center complaining about how divided the country is right now. The country isn’t any more or less divided than it always has been. It’s just that the conservatives have set the agenda in the country for the last 20 years, so we didn’t seem divided. Now that the Left is finally fighting back, we seem divided!”
BG:
True, I just always link them synonymously, even though they are different. I seriously doubt if the American people are quite yet ready to allow Congress to elect our President under anything less than the extraordinary circumstances that the Constitution already provides for.
Evil Captor:
Hogwash. Your very words betray you: “…finally fighting back…” You play this like the Democrats are the long-suffering victims of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy ™. Face it: Ronald Reagan delivered a one-two punch that the Democrats successfully recovered from with Bill Clinton, electing him for two terms.
Where did this support evaporate to? A non-Al-Gore. A person who came across as something other than a droning policy wonk, repeating, “lockbox” until it was indelibly etched into the American political consciousness. In in return, you offer us John Kerry?
:rolleyes:
If Howard Dean had just a bit more self-control, I don’t think we’d be having this conversation. You need a Democratic Ronald Reagan.
Oh, wait. Bill can’t run again.
Exactly. Look at the current map. Both coasts and urban areas favor democrats. The interior of the country (minus urban areas) favor republicans. It’s not an absolute formula, but there are enough people to make it a small majority on both sides.
On another front, the people that cut their societal teeth on the 60’s are now in their late forties and early fifties. They are at the height of their power right now as far as societal influence goes. As they age, the ideals of the 60’s will fade because the proponents will gradually lose influence as they get older. In twenty years, the decision makers will remember the 80’s with fondness…not the summer of love. At that point, traditional liberal ideas will begin to become less popular.
Many on the right would claim the banner of Rationality and Righteousness against the forces of “Socialism lite”.
Or, as you implied, another Bill Clinton. Someone who inspires, who embodies leadership through the ability to weld people together with vision and purpose.
Aww hell, someone who can both think and talk would be nice to see heading up either party at this point, wouldn’t it?
I don’t think Kerry is entirely boring or short on grey matter, but no one’s going to play and replay videotapes of his great speeches.
Economic socialism, lite or heavy, vs. economic libertarianism or whatever would be a different debate. This thread is about conflicts in America over morals, values, and culture. Abortion is not a characteristically socialist or capitalist issue.
Evil One:
So, what’s to stop another counter-culture revolution from happening in the 2010’s or 2020’s?
The God Patrol? With their German Shepherds, and Reindoctrination Camps administered by the Ministry of Jesus’ Love?
What I fear more is that the incendiary partisan rhetoric will ignite a movement of violence born out of a sense of false desparation.
But, even if it did, it wouldn’t be the first time. And, if we as a nation survive, it probably wouldn’t be the last.
On whose part?
Hey, I’m an equal-opportunity sort of guy. Name 'em, I’ll include 'em.
Right, left, center, up, down & sideways.
It’s more than rhetoric. I have 3 children. I am teaching them to fear the government of the United States, to consider moving outside, and being prepared to fight as a member of an insurgency.
Bullshit.
You wouldn’t be admitting that on a public message board if you were even 1/10th serious.
Just out of curiosity: insurgency against whom?
I am 100% serious. You people here are not accustomed to the tone of discussion at my ‘home message board’, where we radicals talk all the time about the fact that these neocon animals are killing our own children, sending them to kill those we supposedly were liberating, because we have outstayed our welcome in Iraq.
You would stand idle and see your child as a soldier in this crime we call the Iraqi War, where your child might be hurt or hurt someone else?
A vote for George Bush (and his neocon tribe), in my opinion, is Accessory to Murder. First degree murder, because it is pre-meditated.
Well, depending on who wins the next election, and how old his kids are, fear may be reasonable. If Bush is intent on “winning” Iraq, whatever that means, I assume we’re in for a desert Vietnam. We simply don’t have enough soldiers there to keep the anti-American forces at bay. Bush will ask for more soldiers. He has to. That means a draft. That means if SAB’s kids are in their mid-to-late teens, and can’t get a deferment, they’re in real danger of being killed.
Something to think about.
Beaten to the post.
Am I to infer that this is the first time you morons on this board realized a perspective like that?
What would you do to someone who broke into your home and took your children at gunpoint?
And the draft thing is not the half of it… how about the fact that all use working people are serfs of the BushHole ruling cult, whose members are limited to the ultra-weathly? They make it a crime to swear against them, but they are criminals.
You morons is NOT a "debate"tactic.
This board is civil.
Ladies and gentlemen, Saddam Hussein!
I’d probably be amazed that I even had kids, much less that they lived in my house for all that time without me knowing it. I’d be so frazzled by the revelation that I had kids that I would fix a strong white russian, light a cigarette, and thank the people that rescued me from my surely deranged attic-dwelling spawn.
screw you, you self-righteous weenie. It is not civil to insinuate I am a caffeine feind.
we’ll miss you.
For mentioning caffeine, I should have a gaint bomb dropped on me.