# Is This Ethical for a Lawyer... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984 "2014-08-20T11:20:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KSReynolds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSReynolds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSReynolds)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/1 "2014-08-20T11:20:13Z")
I caught my live-in of 7years cheating on me. His attorney friend was facilitating the cheating by hosting them on his yaucht, providing my boyfriend with the means to contact me while he was with her on his yaucht. Things got ugly, I got three texts from this attorney laughing at how I had been abused. My boyfriend hit me because I left my checkbook on the dining room table and he gave some checks to the girlfriend to buy things. He said it was my fault that he gave her the wrong check. I filed a PFA and thre him out, texting this attorney who is (was) a mutual friend. He is now representing my ex. Is this ethical? I have all the texts where I asked him to represent me… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/2 "2014-08-20T11:57:12Z")
Why would you believe it is somehow unethical for an attorney to choose to represent one member of a couple instead of the other? I am a little unclear on one thing. Is this a single lawyer? Is the one who let your boyfriend use his yacht as a fuck-sanctuary the same one you asked to represent you? Why woudl you do that, when that attorney obviously is closer to your ex than to you and will therefore exercise more diligence in the case than he would for you? If we are talking about two differnt lawyers, then you know to many lawyers socially. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/3 "2014-08-20T12:09:54Z")
Each state/province has it’s own law association which regulates ethics. The Law Society of Upper Canada has this to say [about representing friends](http://www.lsuc.on.ca/ExamplesOfConflictsOfInterest/). > [@](#): > > Personal Relationships > Though you are not prohibited from acting for a friend or relative, pro bono or otherwise, doing so may pose a conflict of interest [subrules 2.04(1) to (3) and commentaries of the lawyers’ Rules and subrules 3.04(1) to (3) of the Paralegal Rules]. The existing personal relationship may weaken your professional judgment or, depending on the nature of your relationship with this individual, he or she may not fully respect your professional judgment or accept your advice. If you are unsure whether you can provide objective advice or whether your advice will be heeded because of your personal history with an individual, you should decline to make that individual a client. > > A conflict of interest may also arise when you have a sexual or intimate relationship with an individual who is or wishes to become your client. Emotional or psychological influences can affect your ability to consider only the client’s interests, which should be separate and apart from your own, and can impair the individual’s ability to accept your professional help. You should avoid acting for an individual to whom you have close emotional ties if you and that person are unable to remain impartial and objective regarding his or her legal matter. So ethical but not really recommended. If I were you, I’d be more concerned about dating physically abusive jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/4 "2014-08-20T12:36:25Z")
My general opinion would be that a lawyer would need to decline to represent any person in a case in which the lawyer himself could be called as witness, being knowledgeable about or party to any activity relevant to the litigation. Merely being an acquaintance of a client would not matter, but being an accessory to any of the actionable events that are in dispute would. If called as a witness by your lawyer, his lawyer could be faced with the uncomfortable option of throwing his client under the bus, or perjuring himself. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/5 "2014-08-20T12:46:47Z")
Good point. LSUC has this to say, and it may be more relevant to the OP but it is still just a view from a particular region. The actual ethical status would be based on local standards and this is just an example. > [@](#): > > DUTIES TO THE COURT > Lawyer or Paralegal as Witness > …One such conflict arises where the lawyer or paralegal is a potential witness. Where a lawyer or paralegal is both advocate and witness, concerns are raised about the proper administration of justice and about the appearance of impropriety. The advocate who gives evidence puts his or her personal interests and credibility in issue. His or her professional role is necessarily changed… His or her participation as a witness therefore compromises his or her role as lawyer or paralegal and his or her duties to the court. > > Ethically, as manifested in the Rules and Paralegal Rules, and legally, as manifested in the case law with respect to lawyers, this dual role is considered a conflict of interest and is proscribed. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/6 "2014-08-20T13:03:39Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > If called as a witness by your lawyer, his lawyer could be faced with the uncomfortable option of throwing his client under the bus, or perjuring himself. Its not realistic that this will ever occur, the realistic answer is that the lawyer CAN represent the ex. There is no suggestion the lawyer is a witness to violence or any other crime (stealing the check or anything like that) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/7 "2014-08-20T13:06:42Z")
As mentioned, if your soon-to-be-ex’s attorney friend is going to be a witness, then he probably can’t be the lawyer, too. But, what you need to do is get your own lawyer – an experienced divorce lawyer personally unconnected to this whole mess-- and ask her or him. They will be able to get all the facts from you and ask clarifying questions, and will know what, if anything you want to do about it. Frankly, unless this guy regularly does family/divorce law, you’re probably better off with him trying to represent your soon-to-be-ex. There are too many kinds of law for anyone to be good at all of them, so if he doesn’t regularly do divorces, he won’t do well. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/8 "2014-08-20T14:40:13Z")
> [@KSReynolds](#): > > He is now representing my ex. Is this ethical? > > I have all the texts where I asked him to represent me… Just for clarity’s sake, representation in what? Is your ex challenging the PFA? Are you pressing criminal charges? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/9 "2014-08-20T14:47:57Z")
Legal advice is best suited to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![PorchePine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@PorchePine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PorchePine)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/10 "2014-08-20T15:32:36Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Its not realistic that this will ever occur, the realistic answer is that the lawyer CAN represent the ex. > > There is no suggestion the lawyer is a witness to violence or any other crime (stealing the check or anything like that) The man was a live-in boyfriend of seven years. If a common-law marriage was formed, it would need to be dissolved. A party who not only knew about infidelity, but helped facilitate it could indeed be called as a witness. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/11 "2014-08-20T16:27:25Z")
Break ups are very emotional especially when cheating is involved. What specifically are you seeking? The PFA provides some protection for you in as much as he violates the order, you could seek civil damages. Are you seeking some form of financial compensation as a result of the break-up? Is a common-law divorce pertinent to your situation? Are you seeking some form of palimony or alimony? Do you two have kids together? Going after the ex’s friend/attorney seems a bit mis-directed. Focus on yourself and getting the emotional support you need. If you are seeking some form of financial civil compensation, then get your own attorney for advice. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/12 "2014-08-20T16:30:56Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Its not realistic that this will ever occur, the realistic answer is that the lawyer CAN represent the ex. > > There is no suggestion the lawyer is a witness to violence or any other crime (stealing the check or anything like that) There doesn’t need to be a crime. A witness can be called for civil cases, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/13 "2014-08-20T16:37:12Z")
> [@PorchePine](#): > > The man was a live-in boyfriend of seven years. If a common-law marriage was formed, it would need to be dissolved. A party who not only knew about infidelity, but helped facilitate it could indeed be called as a witness. Why? This isn’t the 1930s where you needed evidence of adultery before you could divorce your spouse. These people aren’t even married. They almost certainly don’t have a [common-law marriage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_in_the_United_States), regardless of the folk beliefs of some people. No court is going to award her more of their shared assets just because he was cheating on her. If they have children, he’s not going to lose custody because he was cheating. His cheating is irrelevant for their split, even if they were married. All that matters is that one of them wants to split up, the reasons why are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/14 "2014-08-20T16:55:24Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My general opinion would be that a lawyer would need to decline to represent any person in a case in which the lawyer himself could be called as witness, being knowledgeable about or party to any activity relevant to the litigation. Merely being an acquaintance of a client would not matter, but being an accessory to any of the actionable events that are in dispute would. > > If called as a witness by your lawyer, his lawyer could be faced with the uncomfortable option of throwing his client under the bus, or perjuring himself. I think providing the trysting place makes him an indispensable witness, so in most jurisdictions that is going to be disqualifying as a technical matter. They way to make sure that your lawyer friends don’t eventually sue you is early on in the relationship consult them about some private matter, say, your pathological lying, which is applicable in all cases, pay them and keep the records. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/15 "2014-08-21T17:22:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > No court is going to award her more of their shared assets just because he was cheating on her. Division of marital assets is generally a matter of the court’s discretion. Some states specifically list the partners’ fidelity as a consideration in property division, and many others imply that it may be considered (e.g., where a consideration is the spouses’ relative contributions to a marriage). Infidelity is particularly significant where it results in the wasting of assets that are subject to distribution (e.g., cheating husband buys his mistress a car), which seems to be the case here: > [@](#): > > …he gave some checks to the girlfriend to buy things. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/16 "2014-08-21T18:24:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Division of marital assets is generally a matter of the court’s discretion. Some states specifically list the partners’ fidelity as a consideration in property division, and many others imply that it may be considered (e.g., where a consideration is the spouses’ relative contributions to a marriage). Infidelity is particularly significant where it results in the wasting of assets that are subject to distribution (e.g., cheating husband buys his mistress a car), which seems to be the case here: Exactly- at very least, call the lawyer to the stand to see if he received any compensation - money, a dinner at a nice restaurant, bottle of scotch - as compensation for using the yacht. Even if he didn’t, it gets him up on the stand. you can ask if the case is being paid at a discount because of some arrangement. If fidelity matters, he most definitely will be a witness. At the very least, this forces the ex to find a different lawyer, one he will have to really pay. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/17 "2014-08-22T08:08:23Z")
What’s a PFA? Is it like a restraining order? Is the infidelity relevant to whether it’s granted (or to whatever conditions and terms are ordered)? Is the lawyer with the yacht alleged to have knowledge of the larceny and physical abuse, or only of the infidelity? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ethical-for-a-lawyer/695984/18 "2014-08-22T13:16:06Z")
Protection from Abuse Order. Yes, it’s an injunction against domestic violence, like a restraining order (but a restraining order is a broader term.)