# Is this fiction or did it really happen in history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908 "2013-11-27T12:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/1 "2013-11-27T12:10:41Z")
I heard this story a long time ago, but I could not figure out if it was fiction or real, perhaps you can help me? I have already googled and Binged with no luck except some tombs in Bulgaria come close with a tribe called Thracians, but no where near the numbers I have heard. There was a King that when he died he required all of his subjects, wives, children, slaves, army, horses, chariots, gold, silver and jewels to be buried with him. It was a long time ago 500bc or before that even in what is now Germany or Russia or it could be Bulgaria. Anyone know this tribe or Kings name? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/2 "2013-11-27T13:40:03Z")
Can’t possibly be true. If all his subjects are buried with him, who does the burying? ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/3 "2013-11-27T13:41:11Z")
General contractors. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/4 "2013-11-27T13:41:48Z")
Are there any historical records of what was happening in Germany or Russia or Bulgaria in 500 bc? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/5 "2013-11-27T14:13:41Z")
You might be thinking of the [Varna Necroplolis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna_Necropolis) which isn’t a single burial site, but an early cemetry. Another possibility is the [Tomb of Ghengis Khan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Genghis_Khan) which fits neatly with the massed burial of slaves, wives etc. It’s also quite possibly mythical. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/6 "2013-11-27T17:45:04Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > Another possibility is the [Tomb of Ghengis Khan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Genghis_Khan) which fits neatly with the massed burial of slaves, wives etc. It’s also quite possibly mythical. I want to be buried that way. Others have said I can’t have that. Nonsense!–I say. If Ghengis Khan, so khan I! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/7 "2013-11-27T17:53:16Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > I want to be buried that way. > Others have said I can’t have that. > Nonsense!–I say. > > If Ghengis Khan, so khan I! But you khan always get what you wan. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/8 "2013-11-27T20:17:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Can’t possibly be true. If all his subjects are buried with him, who does the burying? Probably you could find a conquering army who’d oblige… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/9 "2013-11-27T21:17:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But you khan always get what you wan. But you war cry sometimes, and get what you bleed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Evil_Prince_Zorte)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/10 "2013-11-29T07:31:32Z")
This was a tradition in China in 500BC and earlier. The terracotta warriors were a later alternative to actual human sacrifice- [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/transcripts/chinas-terracotta-warriors-program-transcript/840/](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/transcripts/chinas-terracotta-warriors-program-transcript/840/) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/11 "2013-11-29T08:02:58Z")
> [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](#): > > This was a tradition in China in 500BC and earlier. The terracotta warriors were a later alternative to actual human sacrifice- > > [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/transcripts/chinas-terracotta-warriors-program-transcript/840/](http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/transcripts/chinas-terracotta-warriors-program-transcript/840/) Well, if we want to go that way, Pharaohs also used to be buried with tons of bling and the occasional host of servants. Then there’s the Indian custom of _suttee_, by which the widow was expected to hop on her husband’s cremation pyre. But I’ll admit not to have heard about that kind of thing in Europe. Grave goods, sure, plenty of that going around, but funerary sacrifice ? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/12 "2013-11-29T15:53:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > But I’ll admit not to have heard about that kind of thing in Europe. Grave goods, sure, plenty of that going around, but funerary sacrifice ? yup. Vikings killed off the deceased’s _thralls_ (slaves), & were buried, or, possibly, burned, with the deceased. Several have been found. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/13 "2013-11-29T16:26:51Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > yup. > Vikings killed off the deceased’s _thralls_ (slaves), & were buried, or, possibly, burned, with the deceased. > > Several have been found. There is an extant account of an eyewitness to one of these ceremonies - a rather horrified Arabic traveller named Ibn Fadlan. > **[Norse funeral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_funeral#Ibn_Fadlan_account)** > > Norse funerals, or the burial customs of Viking Age North Germanic Norsemen (early medieval Scandinavians), are known both from archaeology and from historical accounts such as the Icelandic sagas and Old Norse poetry. > Throughout Scandinavia, there are many remaining tumuli in honour of Viking kings and chieftains, in addition to runestones and other memorials. Some of the most notable of them are at the Borre mound cemetery, in Norway, at Birka in Sweden, and Lindholm Høje and Jelling in Denmar... Only one woman was killed in that ritual, though. > [@](#): > > A 10th-century Arab Muslim writer named Ahmad ibn Fadlan produced a description of a funeral of a Scandinavian,[8] probably Swedish,[9] chieftain who was on an expedition on the eastern route.[9] The account is a unique source on the ceremonies surrounding the Viking funeral[9][10] of a chieftain.[10] > > The dead chieftain was put in a temporary grave, which was covered for ten days until they had sewn new clothes for him. One of his thrall women volunteered to join him in the afterlife and she was guarded day and night, being given a great amount of intoxicating drinks while she sang happily. When the time had arrived for cremation, they pulled his longship ashore and put it on a platform of wood, and they made a bed for the dead chieftain on the ship. Thereafter, an old woman referred to as the “Angel of Death” put cushions on the bed. She was responsible for the ritual.[9] > > Then they disinterred the chieftain and gave him new clothes. In his grave, he received intoxicating drinks, fruits and a stringed instrument. The chieftain was put into his bed with all his weapons and grave offerings around him. Then they had two horses run themselves sweaty, cut them to pieces, and threw the meat into the ship. Finally, they sacrificed a hen and a cock.[9] > > Meanwhile, the thrall girl went from one tent to the other and had sexual intercourse with the men. Every man told her: “Tell your master that I did this because of my love to him”. In the afternoon, they moved the thrall girl to something that looked like a door frame, where she was lifted on the palms of the men three times. Every time, the girl told of what she saw. The first time, she saw her father and mother, the second time, she saw all her relatives, and the third time she saw her master in the afterworld. There, it was green and beautiful and together with him, she saw men and young boys. She saw that her master beckoned for her.[9] By using intoxicating drinks, they thought to put the thrall girl in an ecstatic trance that made her psychic and through the symbolic action with the door frame, she would then see into the realm of the dead.[10] The same ritual also appears in the Icelandic short story “Völsa þáttr”, where two pagan Norwegian men lift the lady of the household over a door frame to help her look into the otherworld.[11] > > Thereafter, the thrall girl was taken away to the ship. She removed her bracelets and gave them to the old woman. Thereafter she removed her finger rings and gave them to the old woman’s daughters, who had guarded her. Then they took her aboard the ship, but they did not allow her to enter the tent where the dead chieftain lay. The girl received several vessels of intoxicating drinks and she sang and bade her friends farewell.[9] > > Then the girl was pulled into the tent and the men started to beat on the shields so her screams could not be heard. Six men entered the tent to have intercourse with the girl, after which they put her onto her master’s bed. Two men grabbed her hands, and two men her wrists. The angel of death put a rope around her neck and while two men pulled the rope, the old woman stabbed the girl between her ribs with a knife. Thereafter, the relatives of the dead chieftain arrived with a burning torch and set the ship aflame.[9] It is said that the fire facilitates the voyage to the realm of the dead, but unfortunately, the account does not tell to which realm the deceased was to go.[10] > > Afterwards, a round barrow was built over the ashes, and in the centre of the mound they erected a staff of birch wood, where they carved the names of the dead chieftain and his king. Then they departed in their ships.[12] ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/14 "2013-11-29T17:07:19Z")
The sex and the sacrifice make sence in a primitive way, but why the hell would you want to be buried with charred chunks of rotting sweaty horse? ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/15 "2013-11-29T19:16:47Z")
[The Royal Tombs of Ur](http://www.penn.museum/sites/iraq/?page_id=46) fit the bill. > [@](#): > > The 74 bodies in PG1237 included 6 men and 68 women. The men had weapons and were located near the tomb’s entrance. Most of the women were found in four rows across the northwest corner of the death pit, but six were under the remains of a canopy in its south corner and six were near three lyres lining the southeast wall. Almost all wore headdresses of gold, silver, and lapis—simplified versions of Puabi’s headdress. The neat arrangement of bodies and their undisturbed delicate headdresses convinced Woolley that the attendants in the tombs had not been killed, but had gone willingly to their deaths, drinking some deadly or soporific drug and composing themselves for death. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/16 "2013-11-29T20:56:13Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > The sex and the sacrifice make sence in a primitive way, but why the hell would you want to be buried with charred chunks of rotting sweaty horse? Why, because it wouldn’t do for a badass warrior to proudly go fight in the afterwars of the afterlife without a proper afterhorse :). I don’t get the sex part myself though, be it from the girl’s point of view (“I really loved my master, so I’m gonna let his tribe run a train on me”) or his mates (“I really liked him, so I’m going to prove it by fucking his chickadee”). Does not really compute, though as far as funerary customs go I suppose showing up to boink the maid beats being expected to bring a casserole. BTW, thanks **Bosda** & **Malthus**. Ignorance fought ! ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/17 "2013-11-29T21:25:25Z")
Moving from Cafe Society to General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/18 "2013-11-29T21:37:58Z")
I remember a similar scene in “The Epic of Gilgamesh,” which I think is considered largely factual. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/19 "2013-11-29T22:01:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Why, because it wouldn’t do for a badass warrior to proudly go fight in the afterwars of the afterlife without a proper afterhorse :). > > I don’t get the sex part myself though, be it from the girl’s point of view (“I really loved my master, so I’m gonna let his tribe run a train on me”) or his mates (“I really liked him, so I’m going to prove it by fucking his chickadee”). Does not really compute, though as far as funerary customs go I suppose showing up to boink the maid beats being expected to bring a casserole. > > BTW, thanks **Bosda** & **Malthus**. Ignorance fought ! Again according to wikipedia for what it is worth: > [@](#): > > The sexual rites with the slave girl symbolize her role as a vessel for the transmission of life force to the deceased chieftain. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908/20 "2013-11-29T23:08:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Then there’s the Indian custom of _suttee_, by which the widow was expected to hop on her husband’s cremation pyre. > > But I’ll admit not to have heard about that kind of thing in Europe. Grave goods, sure, plenty of that going around, but funerary sacrifice ? Although suttee doesn’t satisfy OP’s quest for wholesale massacre ( :eek: ) it may be worth pointing out that the Vedic custom may derive from their Indo-European speaking ancestors: Suttee has been deduced from Sredny Stog burials ca 4000 BC in the East European steppes, as well as at later sites in the Hungarian plains associated with intruders from the steppes. (I thought I’d read of Copper Age suttee even farther West; Googling I find only [a (pdf) paper on human sacrifices in Iron Age Western Europe](http://www.ffzg.unizg.hr/arheo/ska/tekstovi/ritual_victims.pdf).) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fiction-or-did-it-really-happen-in-history/674908.md?page=2)