# Is this finally it? Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump's presidency? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 22, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028 "2018-08-22T06:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/61 "2018-08-22T20:23:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He doesn’t have to account for all of Trump’s money. He just has to look for any connections between Trump and Russian donors. Read item d) in post 58. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/62 "2018-08-22T20:29:26Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Pence isn’t getting impeached. He’s a career politician that won’t even go out to eat with a woman that isn’t his wife. The only allegations against him are so flimsy that you could see your gramma’s hoo haa through them. Not to mention how politically untenable that would be. Impeaching Trump is itself a major step that is unlikely, but you’re starting to talk revolution if you impeach Pence for showing up late to a meeting where a memo about firing Comey was read. You might not like his stances and I’m not saying that he’s as clean as Mormon underwear, but if he did anything, it’s not even close to rising to impeachable levels. Besides, let’s pretend absolute best case scenario where Democrats win every single seat up for reelection including Mississippi, Wyoming and Utah (unlikely, in fact, it’s even possible due to the unluckiness of the map this year and maybe likely that Republicans pick up seats in the Senate, not lose them, but we’ll pretend.) That would give them 58 seats in the Senate and they need 67 to impeach. Which 9 Republicans exactly do you think are jumping ship to convict Pence of being in the same room where a memo was read? I agree Pence won’t be impeached. While I consider a lot of what Pence has said and done to be immoral, I personally doubt he’s ever done anything illegal. Pence is a smart man and an experienced politician; he knows how to make money from politics while staying inside the letter of the law. And even if he has ever broken the law, I’m sure he made sure to do so in a way that will be impossible to prove. Trying to impeach Pence without a smoking gun would be political suicide for the Democrats. They can make a strong argument that they’re acting on principle if they remove Trump from office. But trying to remove Trump and Pence from office would be obvious partisan politics. You shouldn’t use impeachment as a means to overturn an election. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/63 "2018-08-22T20:57:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s unlikely that President Trump will be impeached, and absurd to suggest that the Vice President will be. Trump might be impeached, but not before someone else is elected in 2020 (it would happen in the lame duck period between election day and when the Congress’s session ends on 1/3; it could even happen after the new Congress starts on 1/3, although if that were to happen, it would probably be after the official electoral vote count on 1/6). It would be symbolic more than anything else, and I doubt the Senate would even bother taking it up before the new President is sworn in. Now there’s a question: can a ex-president be impeached? There would still be a punishment; if convicted, Trump could not hold office again. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/64 "2018-08-22T21:03:33Z")
“An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.”-Gerald R Ford ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/65 "2018-08-22T22:11:59Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Be careful what you wish for…President Pence? :eek: I’d rather Pence in the Oval Office than Trump; even if Pence wants to send me to conversion therapy. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/66 "2018-08-23T03:47:10Z")
I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything. And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/67 "2018-08-23T03:57:40Z")
And failing to convict in the Senate hands the 2020 election to Trump as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/68 "2018-08-23T04:33:39Z")
True, but Nixon resigned after the threat of impeachment. He had previously won 49 states in a landslide. Trump lost the popular vote and pulled an inside straight to win the electoral college. Trump has no history in politics, unlike career politician Nixon and Trump won’t live as long post presidency. The Clinton impeachment was stupid. Everyone could see it was just blind partisanship. And, even if it would have succeeded, then Gore goes into 2000 as a sitting president and likely wins. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/69 "2018-08-23T04:37:33Z")
I doubt we’ll hear much about impeachment before the elections, so as not to scare off voters, or even rally Chump’s base. But after the election … ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/70 "2018-08-23T06:46:08Z")
[If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/new-york-lawsuit-trump-foundation/index.html) The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk. Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What’s Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can’t pardon them, since it is a state charge. Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/71 "2018-08-23T06:59:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/new-york-lawsuit-trump-foundation/index.html) The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk. > Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What’s Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can’t pardon them, since it is a state charge. > Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them. I’ve been thinking the same thing; that they may go after his family or his assets in order to pressure him into resigning. I’d hate to see him just walk away from it all scot-free but at least he’d be out of power. If course we’d then be facing a Pence presidency but I guess we have to deal with one thing at a time. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/72 "2018-08-23T10:59:24Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything. > > And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with). True, but if dems take the House only, they’re not going to have much else to do for the next 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/73 "2018-08-23T11:11:58Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > [If you remember, the NY State Attorney General is suing the Trump Foundation.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/new-york-lawsuit-trump-foundation/index.html) The Tax Department is investigating it also, and they subpoenaed Cohen, who appears eager to talk. > Eric, Don Jr. and Ivanka are all involved in running the Foundation. What’s Trump going to do if they are facing jail time? He can’t pardon them, since it is a state charge. > Is he going to let them go to the slammer - for his crimes - or maybe he might make a deal to resign in return for leniency for them. It’s not the NY State Attorney General’s business to force the President of the U.S. to resign. Her job is to investigate and prosecute the laws of the state of New York. If she has evidence of criminal activity by Eric, Don Jr., or Ivanka she should prosecute them. If she can work out a plea bargain with any or all of them to testify against someone more responsible for the crimes (presumably Donald), she should do that. Those things could be a factor in Donald’s eventual resignation or impeachment, but to make a deal for it directly seems outside her area of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/74 "2018-08-23T11:24:17Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I still cannot believe how many posters on this board think that impeachment is a big deal. Impeachment (whether or not you get 218 House members to vote to impeach) means NOTHING! Sixty-seven senators voting to CONVICT the President is the only thing that means anything. > > And if you think that there 67 US Senators (before or after the midterms) ready to vote to convict President Trump and remove him from the presidency, you are absolutely delusional (no matter what Mueller comes up with). A couple of thoughts. First, it’ll force Reps and Senators alike to vote, one way or another, on the issue - something that can be used against them. Second, a loss in the Senate is not 100% assured; it’s possible enough individual Republican senators will look at the losses in the midterms, Trump’s terrible approval rating, and decide it’s time to cut their losses to do the trick. Third, the Democrats will _really_ piss of their base if they don’t even try. Fourth, it’s the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/75 "2018-08-23T11:38:43Z")
It’ll be over for Trump when enough people, particularly his base, are living with the consequences of their votes. Criminal convictions of his inner circle alone won’t do it. Titillating scandal alone won’t do it. But when farmers in Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, and Nebraska are watching their family estates go up in smoke because of an ill-conceived trade war, I can’t help but think that at least _some_ of them might question their allegiance to a guy who won’t even release his own tax returns to prove that he actually runs a profitable enterprise himself. I think Trump’s kryptonite is to go after what he believes are his strengths: he characterizes himself as this great businessman, and that perceived competence in the eyes of many allows them to justify his outrageous speech and conduct. Right now, the majority of white America thinks they have their guy in office, but the public’s mood can change, and fast. I think it’ll be Trump’s sheer incompetence that finally does him in. Unfortunately, my fear is that he’s going to exact a heavy toll before this country comes to that realization, not just in terms of economics but also to our social fabric and our political identity. Some damage could be permanent. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/76 "2018-08-23T13:26:00Z")
I’m starting to feel like a neutered president Trump who is an albatross on the GOP is not the worst thing in the world right now. > [@running\_coach](#): > > So what? Impeachment can be for _anything_. > It’s entirely possible for Pence to be a conspirator. Unless you believe he was in the dark on the campaign shenanigans. > Maybe Mueller is looking into that. You know who picked Pence as the running mate? [Paul Manafort.](https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-was-handpicked-paul-manafort-696412) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/77 "2018-08-23T13:30:01Z")
The Don is already going scorched earth. In the Fox interview this morning he basically paraphrased Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles:[“Back off or the 401k gets it!”](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-23/trump-says-he-thinks-stock-market-would-crash-if-he-s-impeached) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/78 "2018-08-23T13:30:44Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > True, but Nixon resigned after the threat of impeachment. He had previously won 49 states in a landslide. Trump lost the popular vote and pulled an inside straight to win the electoral college. Trump has no history in politics, unlike career politician Nixon and Trump won’t live as long post presidency. > > The Clinton impeachment was stupid. Everyone could see it was just blind partisanship. And, even if it would have succeeded, then Gore goes into 2000 as a sitting president and likely wins. Nixon resigned when Republican Senators told him that impeachment would lead to conviction in the Senate. We don’t know what would have happened if enough Senate Republicans were unwilling to act. That being said, I’m in favor of impeachment in the House even if it doesn’t lead to conviction in the Senate. Congress needs to do something, and that’s one of the few things it can do. Assuming that Mueller’s investigation turns up something that is reasonably impeachable, which I think is likely. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/79 "2018-08-23T14:04:03Z")
I don’t think the Democrats should focus on an impeachment unless they’re confident they’ve got the votes. They don’t need to impeach Trump to beat him; they just need to wear his ass out with subpoena power and an actual House investigation that Devin Nunes never did. There is no need to actually impeach. They just need enough of a presence to let law enforcement do its job. I think trying to impeach once before they’ve actually made that case with the American public overwhelmingly is going to backfire. I’d rather they just relentlessly expose the corruption and rot within the Republican party. The Democrats can win simply by protecting Mueller and putting pressure on Senate Republicans, who are much more vulnerable to Trump’s corruption than individual House members are. They need to get out in front of Trump on things like economic equality. They need to push the repeal of that awful tax cut, fight to protect Obamacare, fight for higher minimum wages, and fight for labor unions. If they can do that and juxtapose it next to Trump’s cabinet of corruption then they can win back the Senate and even the presidency, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028/80 "2018-08-23T14:39:49Z")
Trump is NOT Nixon. He will NEVER resign. That would require admitting he did something wrong, something he will not do no matter the stakes (yes, even including Don Jr. going to the slammer). We are not living in Nixon’s time. Nixon did not have a 24/7 VERY popular propaganda machine behind him in 1974. It will take a HELL of a lot more than anything we know about to significantly erode his base, and until that happens, there is NO WAY the senate convicts. May he not run again in 2020? Perhaps. Will he ever resign? No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-it-is-this-finally-the-series-of-events-that-will-end-trumps-presidency/820028.md?page=5)