# Is this finally the end for Theresa May? (Update: Apparently so) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 22, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360 "2019-05-22T17:49:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/41 "2019-05-24T13:30:59Z")
I believe what I said was perfectly clear. I’m sorry you don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/42 "2019-05-24T13:38:41Z")
Thread title altered to reflect new info. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/43 "2019-05-24T14:43:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That question was not asked, so your point is irrelevant. Since “leave the EU” necessarily comported the process of leaving and defining a new relationship with it and every other country, it WAS asked. And the Leave campaigns’ answer was that a vote to leave meant all sorts of things that could not - and that they should have known could not (because they were told often enough) - be delivered: hence the dog’s breakfast that has now resulted. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/44 "2019-05-24T16:06:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That question was not asked, so your point is irrelevant. If it wasn’t relevant, and the answer to the question gave clear guidelines on what kind of status was meant, then the current clusterfuck wouldn’t be going on. The question asked for an explicit choice between alternatives that were undefined, and so was decidedly fuzzy. It would be like having a referendum for Puerto Rico asking “Do you want to be part of the United States or not?” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/45 "2019-05-24T19:54:47Z")
The fundamental problem is that the British people had a choice of “Retain all of the benefits and responsibilities of EU membership” or “lose all of the benefits and responsibilities of EU membership”, but the majority of the people wanted “keep all of the benefits but lose all of the responsibilities”, without regard for the fact that that’s not possible. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/46 "2019-05-24T19:58:11Z")
Do you have a cite for that? Because that was not my experience of the Brexiteers to whom I spoke. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/47 "2019-05-25T20:04:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Well, if there’s one thing the UK has learned from this, is never to hold a binding referendum on _anything_ ever again. But the Brexit referendum was _not_ binding; it was simply a consultative one. Parliament would not have been doing anything illegal or unconstitutional if it had simply ignored the result. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/48 "2019-05-25T23:11:48Z")
A pretty good CNN overview of May’s record, almost all of it bad: [https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/uk/theresa-may-legacy-of-failure-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/uk/theresa-may-legacy-of-failure-analysis-intl-gbr/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360/49 "2019-05-27T01:14:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That is what I was asking, seeing as 52-48 wasn’t taken as a settled consensus in 2016. > > My contention would be that an overwhelming majority for either side is unlikely and so reaching a settled consensus may well be impossible. Stop me if I’m wrong, but this language suggests you think of a referendum as something which can produce a settled consensus. This is incorrect. A referendum may tell you whether you have a settled consensus, and if there is one it may help a dissentient minority to accept that reality, but it won’t produce a conensus that doesn’t otherwise exist. We know the country is deeply and almost evenly divided over Brexit; we don’t need a referendum to tell us this. All that a referendum can tell is is whether support for leaving is (marginally) greater than support for remaining, or vice versa. The UK shoul only hold a referendum if that matters. The thing is, if it mattered that in 2016 support for leaving was greater than support for remaining, its very hard to argue that it doesn’t matter in 2019 where the balance of support lies. The arguments that the UK must “respect” the 2016 result are the same arguments that suggest it’s important to hold another referendum. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > My further point was that taking “remain” to mean the status quo is naive. Once a referendum was called, regardless of the decision, things will continue as they did before and that was certainly not a point admitted to by the remain side. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Just to be clear, I of course mean that “things will \*\*\*not \*\*\*continue as they did before” Not sure I get your point here. Whether a refernendum was held or not, things were not going to "continue as they did before’, in the sense that the EU (and the UK) would continue to develop politically and in other ways into the future. The referendum was essentially about the question of whether the UK would continue to be involved in and profoundly affected by the development of the EU, or would cease to be involved in, and would be somewhat less profoundly affected by, the development of the EU. “Everything will remain as it is for ever” was not on the ballot paper, but I seriously doubt that anyone imagined that it was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-finally-the-end-for-theresa-may-update-apparently-so/834360.md?page=2)