# Is This French Saying Correct and If So, How Is It Properly Pronounced? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 4, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313 "2006-01-04T01:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/1 "2006-01-04T01:05:18Z")
OK, this is very basic, and feel free to make fun of me. But seriously, there is a saying that I love that goes “The more things change, the more they remain the same.” I believe it is from the French language, something like this (warning: mangling of the French language follows, with no malice intended): “C’est ca change, cest ca la meme chose.” My question is, what is the proper French, and how does one properly pronounce it? Corrections or any edification is much appreciated. (I’m trying to be good, and get things right. I do not speak French, but would like to be polite and be able to say it correctly.) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/2 "2006-01-04T01:09:03Z")
Replace “Cest” with “Plus”. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/3 "2006-01-04T01:09:22Z")
It’s “Plus ca change, plus ca la meme chose.” And there’s those little curly things under the Cs in “ca” which I don’t know how to make on my computer. Ploo sah shahnge, ploo sah lah mehm shows, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/4 "2006-01-04T01:42:32Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > …And there’s those little curly things under the Cs in “ca” which I don’t know how to make on my computer. > > Ploo sah shahnge, ploo sah lah mehm shows, I believe. This may be a dupe, if so please excuse, I got an error first time and still do not see it posted. Yes, I do not know how to make them either, but I figured you would all understand, as you did. And thank you all very much for the help. I do appreciate it very much! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/5 "2006-01-04T02:01:42Z")
“Plus ça change, plus ça la meme chose.” ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/6 "2006-01-04T02:17:05Z")
I do believe it’s properly “Plus ça change, plus _c’est_ la même chose.” This literally translates as “[the] more it changes, [the] more it’s the same thing.” A “ça” in place of the “c’est” would be gramatically odd, if not incorrect. And “c’est” is pronounced like the English word “say”. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/7 "2006-01-04T03:26:52Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > And there’s those little curly things under the Cs in “ca” which I don’t know how to make on my computer. Hold down the Alt key and then type 135 and you get a lower case c with the cedilla underneath. [More info on typing French accents here.](http://french.about.com/library/bl-accents.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/8 "2006-01-04T03:49:59Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > “Plus ça change, plus ça la meme chose.” “… la m **ê** me chose.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/9 "2006-01-04T04:50:03Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > . . . m **ê** me . . . Oh no, not again. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/10 "2006-01-04T04:55:22Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Hold down the Alt key and then type 135 and you get a lower case c with the cedilla underneath. What is this “Alt key” of which you speak? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/11 "2006-01-04T05:20:16Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > What is this “Alt key” of which you speak? I don’t know how to explain this without sounding flippant. It’s the key on the keyboard that has \*\*Alt \*\* written on it (bottom row, three keys in from the left hand side on my Microsoft keyboard). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/12 "2006-01-04T05:22:27Z")
Mi…cro…soft? ---
**Author:** ![fighting\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@fighting\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fighting_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/13 "2006-01-04T05:23:28Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I don’t know how to explain this without sounding flippant. It’s the key on the keyboard that has \*\*Alt \*\* written on it (bottom row, three keys in from the left hand side on my Microsoft keyboard). If you have a Mac it will be like a flower or a piece of fruit or something maybe. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/14 "2006-01-04T06:38:23Z")
If you do have a Mac, most keyboards mark the ‘option’ key as ‘alt’, but that’s not important since you don’t type a number code to get special characters. In most fonts, it’s simply option-c (hold down option, type c) : ç To see all the characters you can make in this way, use the Keyboard Viewer (in Mac OS pre-X, Key Caps in the Apple Menu). The Keyboard viewer is acessible by going to the International pull-down menu, which is the little flag in the upper corner of the screen, or also in System Prefs-\>International, then checking ‘keyboard viewer’ to ‘ON’ if it’s not already there. Once you open the Keyboard Viewer, you’ll get a picture of the keyboard with the current font overlaid on what key you press to get it. If you hold down one of the ‘meta’ keys (Ctrl, Opt, Cmd, Shift, fn) the picture of the keyboard will change to show what new characters you can type. Most fonts follow the same pattern, but they don’t necessarily have to. If you really need to know how to make a special symbol using OS X, go to the ‘Character Palette’ (accessible via the ‘International’ menu). Unicode will display all the unicode symbols, and you can use ‘unicode blocks’ to get a general grouping of where the symbol is. Once you find it, then use ‘insert’ to insert it. You can also create ‘favorites’ for symbols you use frequently. If you don’t have an Mac, then I apologize for not helping. ---
**Author:** ![tygerbryght](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@tygerbryght](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tygerbryght)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/15 "2006-01-04T09:01:43Z")
The way to get _any_ non-standard (in English) character on a Windows machine is to do the following: \>Start \>Run (type in “charmap”) \>click OK You will then see a window with all the characters available for each font, by font. Select the font you’re currently using, and scroll down until you see the character you want, click on it, then click select, then click copy. Then paste it into wherever you want it. If your curiosity leads you to explore, you’ll discover that the more popular fonts have characters for one or more non-Roman alphabets as well (i.e., Greek, Cyrillic, Arabic, etc.). Some fonts also have characters for various currencies, math and/or logic symbols, and other unusual stuff. In some fonts, you can find a character that gives you the three dots for an elision (…) in one character. There are also fonts for hard spaces that don’t “break” at a line break, characters that will automatically superscript, ordinal indicators, and other interesting stuff. It all depends on what kind of stuff the font designer decided to incorporate. Oh, yeah … and you’ll find that an awful lot have that bitten-apple symbol for that other personal computer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/16 "2006-01-04T18:48:46Z")
And thus we learn that not everyone has a Windows machine, not everyone has an Alt key, not everyone has a number pad, and not everyone can do the Alt+three number pad digits trick. Kinda windy in here, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/17 "2006-01-04T19:06:40Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Oh no, not again. Sorry, looking at it again **MikeS** nailed it. Last time someone asked about a simple French phrase it got up to about 40 posts so comparatively speaking this this thread is “brief.” ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/18 "2006-01-04T20:28:27Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > Sorry, looking at it again **MikeS** nailed it. Last time someone asked about a simple French phrase it got up to about 40 posts so comparatively speaking this this thread is “brief.” Either that or **Lissener** was making a joke about the meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/19 "2006-01-04T21:56:31Z")
I believe the reference was to Memes… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313/20 "2006-01-04T22:27:41Z")
Ah. I would never have gotten that one as I not only avoid use of “meme” but also try to steer clear of “meme” discussion… just one of those ‘hot’ words that rubs me the wrong way… OK, so we’re up to about 20 posts to answer a Q a high school French student could’ve handled in 1. Oh the beautiful time sink that is the SDMB… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-french-saying-correct-and-if-so-how-is-it-properly-pronounced/338313.md?page=2)