# Is this Fundie "take" on Islam a fair summation, theologically speaking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2001, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153 "2001-11-19T05:04:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153/21 "2001-11-20T15:41:33Z")
One quick observation on _islam_ (the concept, not the faith based on it) would be that the subservience to God which it describes is voluntary, and differs in no coherent way, save the object to which one self-subserves oneself, from “I take Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord.” It is the principled dedication of an individual’s will and totality to the deity he/she accepts, not the willing acceptance of slavery. The Christian line: “In His service is perfect freedom” matches clearly what the Muslim sees his role vis-a-vis Al’Lah to be. **Muslim Guy** , have I presented this accurately? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153/22 "2001-11-20T19:01:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I think you guys are reading WAY more into this than is required or suggested. I dunno. Distributed to a group of people who, (unless they live in the Western Suburbs of Detroit), are unlikely to ever encounter a real live Muslim is a tract that lays out “information” about Islam. The tract includes the statements: > [@](#): > > But Muslims also believe that God is unknowable, making a personal relationship with Him impossible. According to Islam, God holds himself apart from mankind. > > . . . > > Superstition controls many aspects of people’s everyday lives and results in a great fearfulness. > > . . . > > Through Islam, a Muslim can only ever relate to God from the position of being a servant or slave, > > . . . > > concepts of repentance and forgiveness are distorted. Each of these statements has been shown to be specifically false. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for _intentions_, asking that God grant Muslims the grace to see him more clearly\*, but to mix this up with statements that contain significant errors of fact tends to make this look more like a patronizing dismissal of Islam. \*The decree from the RCC in the Summer of 2000 that enjoined Catholic teachers to not allow multi-cultural views to “obscure” Catholic teaching brought down protests from people who thought that the RCC was reverting to the old “Only we are saved” silliness. However, if you read that document, you discover that Ratzinger (or whoever) carefully delineated Catholic doctrine, without putting down other groups. Sure, he said that other groups were “incomplete” in their understanding, but he avoided saying “Look! Here is a mistake.”–and compounding that by being _wrong_ in identifying the mistake. I was not happy with the document (and I’m no fan of Ratzy), but as upsetting as that document was to some folks, it at least avoided the problem of leveling baseless charges against the other groups. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153/23 "2001-11-20T19:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Now look, I’m Catholic, and hardly fundamentalist, and some of my friends are Hindu Muslims… OK, not being a wiseass, but how can one be a Hindu Muslim? Is it that the “Hindu” in the expression does not refer to a religion, but an ethnic group? ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153/24 "2001-11-21T01:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\* And even if I never in a million years would take an SDMB debunking of this thing back to church next Sunday and shove it in the face of the person who put it in the bulletin and tell him, “The Straight Dope is that this is a load of crap,” still I’d like to know just for myself. . . . > > And I don’t know any Muslims to ask, “Do you really believe in jinn?” We have about 100 Muslims here in Decatur, Illinois, out of a population of 85,000. > > \*\* **DDG** After reading everyone’s contribution to this thread, I have a suggestion. I don’t know if it’s one you’ll like, but it’s a suggestion. It’s been said that some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them. It sounds to me like you’re a spotlight of reason in a sea of general ignorance. Since you’re on the scene and can do something about it, maybe you should. Fighting ignorance is sort of like being at an auto accident. It’s not pretty, but if you’re on the scene, you ought to try to do something to help. I don’t suggest that you personally go after the person who put it in the bulletin. But maybe you could approach your pastor and say, “We have these questions in the congretation and I want to get the straight dope. Can we invite someone from the local mosque to give us a presentation on Islam and answer some of our questions?” Who knows? You might get a very interesting evening out of it and actually expand some horizons. I’m reminded of an old Mary Hartman episode where one of the characters is appearing on a talk show. “I just want to thank the producers and agents who have been so nice to me,” she says. “They’re Jewish and I’ve never known anyone who was Jewish before. They’re so friendly and helpful, I can’t believe those are the same people who killed our Lord.” A step, at least, in the right direction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-fundie-take-on-islam-a-fair-summation-theologically-speaking/94153.md?page=1)