# Is this girl a tease, or is this guy an idiot? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140 "2014-03-07T20:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/21 "2014-03-07T21:48:29Z")
Maddie is a tease if she is letting guys think she is straight (if she sleeps with them not telling them she’s gay). Before I get called out for slut shaming - I don’t think people would be ok with a gay guy going around and sleeping with women - and then being - “sorry I was tipsy - I’m gay!” Of course if there is full disclosure - or it is only a one night stand type thing - then most guys wouldn’t care. I suspect she is leading some of these guys on, but can’t tell from the story. The taking the bull by the horns comment sort of seems like a come on. But it really depends on the nuances. If she said it any then IMMEDIATELY went from the bedroom grabbed her purse with keys in hand - then I’d say no. If she had a lilting tone, sauntered past Dave and gave him some look - that’s a different story. I think anyone who is truly lesbian and has sex with guys is doing it for the power - and there is no reason to believe she wouldn’t try it against Dave either. But if people really believe her when she says she trusts Dave - AND - they don’t think she sees his desire - then ok. But I find that hard to believe. I know one woman (and I know it isn’t the same thing) - who really gets off on having sex with men. The thing is - she is not attracted to men - usually. However - if she sees him with another woman - her brain starts churning and she starts plotting to get him into bed. I think it is like a video game to her. She usually wins - and she gets VAST pleasure out of this. She never really made any moves on me when I was single, but when I’ve had dates or she sees me with someone - she is pretty overt about it. You have any idea how difficult it was for me to say no to her (I had a GF I liked at the time) when she literally said “please, I really want to suck your cock”. I really wish I could have had this on video to show my ex gf, but I don’t think she liked me hanging around her anyway. She is bi - seems more attracted to women, but doesn’t get the thrill out of having sex with women. She likes to conquer the men. I try and explain that it really isn’t THAT difficult to find even married guys that will sleep with you when you say things like “please, I really want to suck your dick right now.” She is pretty self aware about it - I’ll see her start to get her sights on a guy and she will notice me noticing her - and she’ll say “yes - I know I am fucked up - I can’t help it” Your situation is different, but just thought I’d mention mine to show women do do stuff like this sometimes. Another point in favor of the woman is it was a church event. I think in general women should be able to feel a little less vulnerable to being hit on if they are going to a church event. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/22 "2014-03-07T21:55:20Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I believe that makes DAVE a tease - teasing her with a supposedly platonic friendship that he doesn’t really hold for her. Dave is in danger of becoming one of those reprehensible Nice Guys™. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/23 "2014-03-07T21:57:42Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Being friends is all they would ever be anyway. There’s nothing stuck about it because she’s gay, or perhaps bi when drunk. I’m far, far from an expert in female sexuality, so I could be totally off base here, but, my thought was, if she were totally uninterested in men, she wouldn’t be having sex with them even when drunk. My WAG is that she’s bisexual, and at least theoretically interested in men, but thinks that actual men are either jerks or wouldn’t want her (on more than a carnal level). And she’s wondering if Dave might be a counterexample to that theory, but she’s afraid that he actually falls into one of these two categories after all. I offer this only as a possibility… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/24 "2014-03-07T21:58:31Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I think all the poll options are true to varying degrees. > > Dave’s an idiot but he shouldn’t make sexual advances towards her. Dave’s a mensch but to an abnormal level, probably because of the prospect of sex. Remove that prospect and he’ll be at the sweet spot of meschiness. > > Maddie knows what she’s doing but she doesn’t know if what she’s doing is good for her or not. Lesbian or not, she’s at least inconsiderate when her friend comes to pick her up she’s not showered/dressed. > > And God yes, pies of all sorts washed down with beer please. I have locked onto your position via repeater-scope and even as we speak the serverbots are loading pies of all sorts into the pastry cannon. I know wehad some unfortunate results last spring but I believe all the kinks are out of the PC and there is only a 48% chance that you will be killed or seriously injured. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/25 "2014-03-07T22:01:02Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m far, far from an expert in female sexuality, so I could be totally off base here, but, my thought was, if she were totally uninterested in men, she wouldn’t be having sex with them even when drunk. My WAG is that she’s bisexual, and at least theoretically interested in men, but thinks that actual men are either jerks or wouldn’t want her (on more than a carnal level). And she’s wondering if Dave might be a counterexample to that theory, but she’s afraid that he actually falls into one of these two categories after all. > > I offer this only as a possibility… Then it’s still up to her to decide if she wants to pursue it and he needs to leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/26 "2014-03-07T22:01:57Z")
I don’t know anything about women, but from the description I picked option 4. Much more important: any recipe for apple pie that has no cinnamon is an offense against nature. Fie! Roddy ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/27 "2014-03-07T22:08:20Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > Maddie is a tease if she is letting guys think she is straight (if she sleeps with them not telling them she’s gay). > > Before I get called out for slut shaming - I don’t think people would be ok with a gay guy going around and sleeping with women - and then being - “sorry I was tipsy - I’m gay!” > > Of course if there is full disclosure - or it is only a one night stand type thing - then most guys wouldn’t care. I suspect she is leading some of these guys on, but can’t tell from the story. > > The taking the bull by the horns comment sort of seems like a come on. But it really depends on the nuances. If she said it any then IMMEDIATELY went from the bedroom grabbed her purse with keys in hand - then I’d say no. If she had a lilting tone, sauntered past Dave and gave him some look - that’s a different story. > > I think anyone who is truly lesbian and has sex with guys is doing it for the power - and there is no reason to believe she wouldn’t try it against Dave either. > > But if people really believe her when she says she trusts Dave - AND - they don’t think she sees his desire - then ok. But I find that hard to believe. > > I know one woman (and I know it isn’t the same thing) - who really gets off on having sex with men. The thing is - she is not attracted to men - usually. However - if she sees him with another woman - her brain starts churning and she starts plotting to get him into bed. I think it is like a video game to her. She usually wins - and she gets VAST pleasure out of this. She never really made any moves on me when I was single, but when I’ve had dates or she sees me with someone - she is pretty overt about it. You have any idea how difficult it was for me to say no to her (I had a GF I liked at the time) when she literally said “please, I really want to suck your cock”. I really wish I could have had this on video to show my ex gf, but I don’t think she liked me hanging around her anyway. She is bi - seems more attracted to women, but doesn’t get the thrill out of having sex with women. She likes to conquer the men. I try and explain that it really isn’t THAT difficult to find even married guys that will sleep with you when you say things like “please, I really want to suck your dick right now.” She is pretty self aware about it - I’ll see her start to get her sights on a guy and she will notice me noticing her - and she’ll say “yes - I know I am fucked up - I can’t help it” > > Your situation is different, but just thought I’d mention mine to show women do do stuff like this sometimes. > > Another point in favor of the woman is it was a church event. I think in general women should be able to feel a little less vulnerable to being hit on if they are going to a church event. I’m going with this. I also happen to know a woman like the one you described. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/28 "2014-03-07T22:15:08Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Poor Dave has slid right past “Friend Zone” and into “Sister Zone.” Yup. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \ > I feel safe in saying that Maddie’s emotional intelligence is not quite as high as might be best. Yup. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That too. But what I meant in this context is the fact that Maddie seems not to realize that Dave’s warm for her form as well as a good buddy, and adjust her behavior accordingly. I don’t quite buy this. Maddie sounds like an attractive woman; surely she knows that all guys want to sleep with her (or she could at least suspect that parading around in front of one in a towel will get his mind going there). > [@JerrySTL](#): > > Dave could just ask her if they are just (1) friends, (2) possibly friends with benefits, or (3) could become more than friends with benefits. > > If I were Dave, I’d keep my distance. Crazy can be fun, but crazy can also be too crazy. That’s the vibe I’m getting from Maddie, too. The girl is trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/29 "2014-03-07T22:17:02Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I believe that makes DAVE a tease - teasing her with a supposedly platonic friendship that he doesn’t really hold for her. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Dave is in danger of becoming one of those reprehensible Nice Guys™. I’ve never felt the two had to be mutually exclusive. Isn’t it possible to want to be friends with a woman _and_ to jump her bones? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/30 "2014-03-07T22:36:50Z")
I’ve known women who were that casual around me or other men - most often lesbians. What you describe above is pretty tepid, especially since Maddie has praised Dave for not hitting on her in the past. She may not be practicing a lot of compassion or self-awareness in the relationship, though. Ergo, my votes above. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/31 "2014-03-07T22:48:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t quite buy this. Maddie sounds like an attractive woman; surely she knows that all guys want to sleep with her (or she could at least suspect that parading around in front of one in a towel will get his mind going there). Really? You don’t know women who sleep with men when they’re drunk and then later regret it who have no idea that they’re attractive? Who in fact have the self-esteem of an amoeba and are absolutely certain that they’re ugly and no sober sane man would find them attractive? 'Cause I know far more of that type than I know women who think they’re All That[sup]TM[/sup] and engage in Drunken Regret Sex on a regular basis. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve never felt the two had to be mutually exclusive. Isn’t it possible to want to be friends with a woman _and_ to jump her bones? I suspect it’s more the norm than the exception, actually. But it still doesn’t make it her responsibility to account for his unspoken feelings and to assume he’s a dishonest dog. Dishonest by omission, perhaps, but still dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/32 "2014-03-07T23:15:41Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > And why exactly is it her job to a) notice that and b) adjust her behavior? Is Dave mute? Do his legs not work to allow him to walk out the door? Because you left that part out of your description. > > There is at least one someone here who is not being honest and upfront about their feelings. There may be two, but there’s not enough information to determine whether Maddie is one of them. I believe that makes DAVE a tease - teasing her with a supposedly platonic friendship that he doesn’t really hold for her. Teasing is making someone think they can have something they can’t have. I can’t see any evidence that Dave cannot have a platonic relationship with Maddie. I’ve had a lot of platonic relationships with women I’ve found attractive, many of whom are even married. Just because, if the situation were different, I wouldn’t mind trying a romantic relationship with a woman doesn’t mean that we can’t have a non-flirtatious friendship. Being honest and upfront about romantic feelings is just not something that is expected in a platonic relationship. How long do you think I’d be friends with these married women if I told them they were attractive? For some reason, just discussing attraction to each other ruins platonic relationships. This holds even when one side knows that the other is attracted to them–just as long as no one says anything. I’d love it if everyone could just be 100% transparent about everything, but that rarely seems to work out. A friendship where you are 100% emotionally intimate is rare. But not sharing something is not the same thing as implying something that is untrue. Only the latter is teasing. EDIT: To make it more obvious since you keep going on this idea: NOT SHARING YOUR FEELINGS IS NOT BEING DISHONEST. It is how every single human being on the face of the planet works. Dave is not being dishonest unless he does not want to be friends with Maddie. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/33 "2014-03-07T23:34:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Dave is not being dishonest unless he does not want to be friends with Maddie. > [@](#): > > …anyone who seems them together can tell that Dave’s at least 33% in love with her…Part of him thinks he missed an opportunity to make a move on Maddie He is in love with her. He wants to make a move on her. He does not want to be a platonic friend. Your point is perfectly valid if one is attracted but doesn’t want more. He wants more. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/34 "2014-03-07T23:35:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Dave is not being dishonest unless he does not want to be friends with Maddie. Dave is having an existential crisis because Maddie let him into the house while she was getting ready for a church event. They had non-flirtatious conversation while she got dressed and did her hair/makeup, and he is wondering if it was some veiled come-on. His unstated feelings for her are going to completely ruin their friendship, because he’s allowing them to run ragged over common sense. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/35 "2014-03-07T23:58:53Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > He is in love with her. He wants to make a move on her. He does not want to be a platonic friend. > > Your point is perfectly valid if one is attracted but doesn’t want more. He wants more. These are not mutually incompatible states. I have never wanted to be in a romantic relationship with someone that I did not also want to be in a platonic relationship with. A romantic relationship is an add-on to a platonic relationship. It’s not a whole other thing. Dave is only being dishonest if you assume that the only reason he is friends with Maddie is that he plans to convince her to want to be more. The fact that he was talking about some other girl he wanted to date makes that seem quite unlikely. He clearly is okay with just being friends, if that’s all she wants. But, if she wants more, he’s okay with that, too. Simply choosing to not share with someone that you would like to be in a relationship with them is not dishonest. It is the usual state of things. Only if you believe that there is a chance of reciprocation will you share. And Dave has had every reason to believe that Maddie does not reciprocate. There’s nothing more awkward than admitting to liking someone who doesn’t like you back. It’s definitely enough to ruin friendships. If you value a friendship, don’t do it. If Dave did not value a platonic friendship, he would have no reason to not have “made a move” on her. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/36 "2014-03-08T00:28:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Dave is having an existential crisis because Maddie let him into the house while she was getting ready for a church event. They had non-flirtatious conversation while she got dressed and did her hair/makeup, and he is wondering if it was some veiled come-on. His unstated feelings for her are going to completely ruin their friendship, because he’s allowing them to run ragged over common sense. Well, then, all the other people who think she was flirting or teasing must also be in love with her, right? No, the situation is legitimately questionable. I’d err on the side of it meaning nothing, too, but that doesn’t mean I don’t see the flirtatious implications. Trying to decipher signals is normal. It would be nice if everyone were 100% transparent, but they aren’t, so some level of decoding is necessary. As long as the guy is just asking friends rather than actually planning to make a move, I think the friendship is fine. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/37 "2014-03-08T02:20:11Z")
I’d say they’re in the friend zone. But if Maddie has even the slightest inkling that Dave has feelings for her, walking around wearing just a towel is really poor form. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/38 "2014-03-08T03:18:46Z")
The wording was in one of the options I chose in the poll, but no one is ever stuck in the “friend zone.” > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Dave is in danger of becoming one of those reprehensible Nice Guys™. It doesn’t become untrue when you use a sarcastic tone. Though if Dave is complaining about the situation I’d quibble with “in danger of becoming.” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/39 "2014-03-08T03:47:53Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Really? You don’t know women who sleep with men when they’re drunk and then later regret it who have no idea that they’re attractive? Who in fact have the self-esteem of an amoeba and are absolutely certain that they’re ugly and no sober sane man would find them attractive? 'Cause I know far more of that type than I know women who think they’re All That[sup]TM[/sup] and engage in Drunken Regret Sex on a regular basis. \ Yeah, I suppose. Maddie does sound awfully confused; I guess there’s no reason to think she’s tracking particularly well on any romantic subject. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140/40 "2014-03-08T04:03:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > These are not mutually incompatible states. I have never wanted to be in a romantic relationship with someone that I did not also want to be in a platonic relationship with. A romantic relationship is an add-on to a platonic relationship. It’s not a whole other thing. > > Dave is only being dishonest if you assume that the only reason he is friends with Maddie is that he plans to convince her to want to be more. The fact that he was talking about some other girl he wanted to date makes that seem quite unlikely. He clearly is okay with just being friends, if that’s all she wants. But, if she wants more, he’s okay with that, too. > > Simply choosing to not share with someone that you would like to be in a relationship with them is not dishonest. It is the usual state of things. Only if you believe that there is a chance of reciprocation will you share. And Dave has had every reason to believe that Maddie does not reciprocate. > > There’s nothing more awkward than admitting to liking someone who doesn’t like you back. It’s definitely enough to ruin friendships. If you value a friendship, don’t do it. If Dave did not value a platonic friendship, he would have no reason to not have “made a move” on her. The reason he thinks of her as “friend” is because he believes they aren’t orientationally compatible. Single straight men are NOT “friends” with single straight women. Geez, am I the only Doper who’s seen When Harry Met Sally? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-girl-a-tease-or-is-this-guy-an-idiot/683140.md?page=3)