# Is this guy guilty of stolen valor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136 "2019-10-22T14:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/41 "2019-10-23T03:01:21Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > OK, so it was a joke. Just checking! Thanks šŸ˜› ā€œI was never on board a shipā€ might also mean stationed on board a ship. Letā€™s ask **Chefguy**. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/42 "2019-10-23T03:07:12Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Sounds like a poseur to me. > > Iā€™m reminded of one of my brotherā€™s friends who would talk about his time in the Navy, until it came out that he never finished boot camp. He was supposed to go to Electricianā€™s Mate ā€œAā€ school, but they discovered he was colorblind, so he was booted from boot. Kinda pathetic to inflate a few weeks of recruit training into a tour of duty. > > Not the same as what you encountered, but closeā€¦ I have a relative who got in trouble with some Vietnam veteransā€™ organizations because he claimed to be one of them. He was indeed a Vietnam-ERA veteran, but all of his service was stateside. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/43 "2019-10-23T03:16:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I guess Iā€™m odd. Iā€™m an American civil engineer and didnā€™t know what Seabees were. Iā€™m a Spanish chemical engineer and I know them to be the source of American reactions to ā€œmyā€ old factoryā€™s attitude: ā€œah! The difficult we do at once, the impossible takes a bit longer?ā€ (Us, not recognizing the quote): ā€œNah, the difficult already got done, the impossible yeah itā€™ll take us a few hours.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/44 "2019-10-23T04:02:03Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > ā€œI was never on board a shipā€ might also mean stationed on board a ship. Letā€™s ask **Chefguy**. > > ~Max As mentioned above by me, in the old days the 'Bees got to where they were going by boat; and by ā€˜old daysā€™, I mean WWII. By the early 70s, there were no deployment sites that couldnā€™t be reached by aircraft. The only boat trips were when teams were sent to some of the smaller Polynesian islands from places like Guam. When I say ā€˜never on board a shipā€™, I mean I never set foot on one. My deployments were all on land and I got there via commercial aircraft chartered by the military. There are some exceptions; I knew an Engineering Aide (surveyor) who had a tour on an oceanographic survey ship. And any Seabee attached to a UDT would, of course, have had boat travel in his job description. By the way, the Seabee underwater demolition teams were the forerunners of the SEAL teams. The closest I ever got to being on a boat was when I flew from Puerto Rico to St. Thomas on a Grumman Goose. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/45 "2019-10-23T04:28:42Z")
In his defense, Iā€™ve seen fact sheets for stolen valor and its not a common MO to make up such a dull back story. 23 years in CE? In the Air Force? Not jumping at an opportunity to talk up Red Horse experience? (Aside, Iā€™ve somehow made it 18 years without being familiar with red horse, but then Iā€™ve never deployed and Iā€™m not CE). Anyway, it doesnā€™t sound like a textbook stolen valor scenario. Iā€™d guess he did 23 years in the guard and never got out much. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/46 "2019-10-23T10:01:27Z")
At first read, I thought the guy might have been an Air Force civilian who was trying to sneakily make his career sound like military service. If so, what he said might have been technically accurate, if misleading. But the next couple of bumbling responses make me wonder if heā€™s making the whole thing up. In the ā€œPolice Academyā€ movie where Tackleberry meets the parents of the girl he loves, he learns that her father was middleweight champion of the Seabees. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/47 "2019-10-23T11:37:21Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > In his defense, Iā€™ve seen fact sheets for stolen valor and its not a common MO to make up such a dull back story. 23 years in CE? In the Air Force? Not jumping at an opportunity to talk up Red Horse experience? (Aside, Iā€™ve somehow made it 18 years without being familiar with red horse, but then Iā€™ve never deployed and Iā€™m not CE). Anyway, it doesnā€™t sound like a textbook stolen valor scenario. > > Iā€™d guess he did 23 years in the guard and never got out much. Yeah that has to be the most boring Stolen Valor story ever. Take a page from this complete phony. If youā€™re going to steal valor then give yourself a Silver Star and repel out of helicopters the save wounded soldiers. > **[84-year-old US Army vet challenges TSA agent to 10 push-ups before Honor Flight](https://www.foxnews.com/travel/84-us-army-vet-challenges-tsa-push-ups)** > > Age is nothing but a number. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/48 "2019-10-23T11:57:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > repel out of helicopters How does that work? Do you have to make the helicopter not like you or something? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/49 "2019-10-23T12:05:10Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > How does that work? Do you have to make the helicopter not like you or something? It has something to do with magnets. Sorry Iā€™m not a scientist. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/50 "2019-10-23T12:07:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just a brief tangent here, but itā€™s interesting that a character like Ward Cleaver in the 1950s would have needed military service in his background story. Everybodyā€™s father was in the war. I dunno how interesting it is. In filling in a manā€™s backstory, saying he was in a particular branch of the service would have been little more than filler, like a TV character today offhand mentioning he went to UCLA. Twenty percent of all American males were in uniform; in the right age range, it was more than half. In fact, Iā€™d guess that in the mid fifties, a man serving in WWII would have been more likely than having gone to university. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/51 "2019-10-23T13:08:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I dunno how interesting it is. In filling in a manā€™s backstory, saying he was in a particular branch of the service would have been little more than filler, like a TV character today offhand mentioning he went to UCLA. Twenty percent of all American males were in uniform; in the right age range, it was more than half. > > In fact, Iā€™d guess that in the mid fifties, a man serving in WWII would have been more likely than having gone to university. In the audio commentary of one of the _Mad Men_ boxsets, the writers described listening to a group of men from that era talking about their lives. They said that military experiences were like adults today talking about high school. It was assumed basically everybody had them. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/52 "2019-10-23T14:06:00Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > In his defense, Iā€™ve seen fact sheets for stolen valor and its not a common MO to make up such a dull back story. 23 years in CE? In the Air Force? Not jumping at an opportunity to talk up Red Horse experience? (Aside, Iā€™ve somehow made it 18 years without being familiar with red horse, but then Iā€™ve never deployed and Iā€™m not CE). Anyway, it doesnā€™t sound like a textbook stolen valor scenario. > > Iā€™d guess he did 23 years in the guard and never got out much. Youā€™re probably right. It just seemed hinky to me. He also told the server than he spent his first four years in the Army. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/53 "2019-10-23T14:08:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I dunno how interesting it is. In filling in a manā€™s backstory, saying he was in a particular branch of the service would have been little more than filler, like a TV character today offhand mentioning he went to UCLA. Twenty percent of all American males were in uniform; in the right age range, it was more than half. > > In fact, Iā€™d guess that in the mid fifties, a man serving in WWII would have been more likely than having gone to university. That is what I was pointing out, itā€™s not a matter of course to put military service in the background of a character anymore. It might be done for a cop or some characters, but not your typical dad character. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/54 "2019-10-23T14:50:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That is what I was pointing out, itā€™s not a matter of course to put military service in the background of a character anymore. It might be done for a cop or some characters, but not your typical dad character. Only if you want to give them a passing excuse to be an expert in all manner of firearms and hand-to-hand (because all members of the military are combat hardened), or to inject ā€œPTSDā€ into their back story. Because of course all veteransā€”and certainly all Iraq/Afghanistan veteransā€”have PTSD which selectively causes them to become dissociative and need a dramatic moment to ā€œsnap out of itā€ before the final push. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/55 "2019-10-23T16:44:21Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Only if you want to give them a passing excuse to be an expert in all manner of firearms and hand-to-hand (because all members of the military are combat hardened), or to inject ā€œPTSDā€ into their back story. Because of course all veteransā€”and certainly all Iraq/Afghanistan veteransā€”have PTSD which selectively causes them to become dissociative and need a dramatic moment to ā€œsnap out of itā€ before the final push. Describes me perfectly. šŸ˜ƒ Sometimes I wonder if Iā€™m the only normal person to ever come out of a combat zone. I may have the very mildest form of PTSD (loud noises bother me), but otherwise no issues other than repetitive dreams of missing a troop movement flight. I know which end of a gun the bullet comes out of and qualified expert on some. All Seabees who deploy with a construction battalion are trained in defensive combat by Marine trainers. I have no hand-to-hand training to speak of. I enjoyed a lot of my time in the military, hated some of it, and donā€™t regret any of it other than lost income for all those years. I also donā€™t dwell on it or go sit in a vetsā€™ bar pissing and moaning about how badly weā€™re all treated. I donā€™t belong to a vet motorcycle club, wear old uniform bits, or a hat proclaiming VIETNAM VETERAN. I donā€™t put my hand over my heart at ball games, nor do I sing the anthem. I fly the flag on certain holidays, but feel no need to stick fake patriotism in othersā€™ faces like I saw recently on our vacation to rural PA and NY. I have issues with the military worship over the last 20 years, and I do have big problems with people who are poseurs. More info than any of you care about, Iā€™m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/56 "2019-10-23T16:48:04Z")
Do you complain on Facebook that some people in the military are allowed to have beards now and how it will ruin the military for all time? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/57 "2019-10-23T18:03:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you complain on Facebook that some people in the military are allowed to have beards now and how it will ruin the military for all time? > > šŸ™‚ Thatā€™s really a thing? I had a beard at different points in my career. In 1970, Adm Elmo Zumwalt (who was then CNO) famously relaxed grooming standards and started a series of ā€œZ-Gramsā€ intended to reduce racism and sexism. Unfortunately, this made grooming standards difficult to enforce, as the rules were a bit fuzzy (as were the troops). Coincidentally or not, that was a time when there was a certain amount of rebelliousness going on in the Navy that included the riot that occurred on the USS Kittyhawk. Drug use was also on the upswing. When Zumwalt left the Navy, beards survived, but the regs became more strict. In 1984 a reg was issued that said persons in positions of ā€œhigh visibilityā€ would not be allowed to grow a beard. Commanding officers interpreted this very widely, and most senior petty officers had to shave. In 1985 the CNO banned all beards (people engaged in ops with the CIA, etc., exempted). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/58 "2019-10-23T18:16:00Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I donā€™t put my hand over my heart at ball games, nor do I sing the anthem. I put my hat over my heart but not my bare hand. Neither do I sing ā€“ the idea is to honor, not to blaspheme. Being non-combat, I deflect those well-meaning ā€œthank you for your serviceā€ people. Save it for those guys who were running around with a rifle. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/59 "2019-10-23T18:18:47Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Coincidentally or not, that was a time when there was a certain amount of rebelliousness going on in the Navy that included the riot that occurred on the USS Kittyhawk. Drug use was also on the upswing. Butā€”butā€”as a trophy-hounding millennial, Iā€™ve been assured that the Navy of your generation was inestimably superior to that of my own generation, and that discipline has suffered horribly as a result of stress cards, safety timeouts, and ā€œdiversityā€ initiatives. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/60 "2019-10-23T18:23:27Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Thatā€™s really a thing? > > I had a beard at different points in my career. In 1970, Adm Elmo Zumwalt (who was then CNO) famously relaxed grooming standards and started a series of ā€œZ-Gramsā€ intended to reduce racism and sexism. Unfortunately, this made grooming standards difficult to enforce, as the rules were a bit fuzzy (as were the troops). Coincidentally or not, that was a time when there was a certain amount of rebelliousness going on in the Navy that included the riot that occurred on the USS Kittyhawk. Drug use was also on the upswing. When Zumwalt left the Navy, beards survived, but the regs became more strict. In 1984 a reg was issued that said persons in positions of ā€œhigh visibilityā€ would not be allowed to grow a beard. Commanding officers interpreted this very widely, and most senior petty officers had to shave. In 1985 the CNO banned all beards (people engaged in ops with the CIA, etc., exempted). Oh yeah. At least once a week in my Retired AF group, someone posts an article about a Sikh soldier or airman and starts screaming bloody murder about how beards arenā€™t allowed and this is the ruination of the military and blah blah blahā€¦ One time it was a woman with a head scarf, youā€™d have thought the world was going to end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136.md?page=4)