# Is this guy guilty of stolen valor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136 "2019-10-22T14:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/81 "2019-10-25T17:26:44Z")
Responding to the OP… His tale certainly sounds fishy, but maybe it’s still possible he worked in some form as a civ engineer, maybe as a contractor at some point, but exaggerates his association with the AF? When I was an undergrad at a school with an NROTC, I knew a guy who DEFINITELY was a case of stolen valor. He had his hair cropped short, seemed pretty athletic and wore some kind of tan colored jumpsuit, and claimed to be in the Marines ROTC. We didn’t have any reason to doubt him. He hung around our campus ministry and was pretty much a fixture there. When the first Gulf War started up (1990 / 1991 or so) he was saying things like he was soon going to be deployed and sort of pushed the sympathy angle, making a show of goodbyes to everyone. Turns out, he wasn’t in the ROTC, possibly wasn’t even a student at our university, and was just making stuff up. I think he got “busted” by someone who actually was in NROTC. (I had a couple of these Marines in my Japanese classes.) Wasn’t going to be deployed. I don’t think he was even in the military. Just trying to make everyone think he was. After the revelations came out, he disappeared; I never saw or heard from him again. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/82 "2019-10-25T19:40:42Z")
> [@Limmin](#): > > Responding to the OP… > > His tale certainly sounds fishy, but maybe it’s still possible he worked in some form as a civ engineer, maybe as a contractor at some point, but exaggerates his association with the AF? He was pretty specific about retiring from the AF after 23 years and having spent the first four with the Army. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/83 "2019-10-26T02:03:11Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > … People are always shocked when I tell them that in 23 years in the Navy, I never set foot on a ship… One of my inprocessors at MEPS was a YN1 with over 20 years who had never had sea duty. I thought it was a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/84 "2019-10-26T03:41:13Z")
Another civilian, non-engineer American who has heard of the Seabees, but isn’t quite sure where. Much like sappers, I have a feeling it was actually first reading fiction and probably older science fiction like Heinlein. I believe Starship Troopers has the two “mottos” of the sapper unit as the official “Can do!” and the unofficial as “First we dig 'em, then we die in 'em” mentioned during Rico’s mission as a third lieutenant out of OCS. Though I know I’ve also heard the one Nava mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/85 "2019-10-26T03:54:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > As I understand it real vets have a card certifying it that they must show to get discounts and such. I suppose those can be faked but you can always ask to see one. I’ve never known my mother (who was an Army nurse) to ever have such a thing. Of course, the only other benefit besides Uncle Sam paying for college that I’ve ever known her to use was to join USAA way back when. I’ve never really asked, but I get the feeling she saw her time as purely transactional in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/86 "2019-10-26T14:33:48Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’ve never known my mother (who was an Army nurse) to ever have such a thing. Of course, the only other benefit besides Uncle Sam paying for college that I’ve ever known her to use was to join USAA way back when. I’ve never really asked, but I get the feeling she saw her time as purely transactional in any case. Oregon, and I’m sure other states, have an option to have your veteran status noted on your driver’s license. You have to show your DD-214 for that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/87 "2019-11-02T13:26:01Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Just search this board for posts by Tripler. Maybe five of them _don’t_ mention RED HORSE. :D:D Well, at least until he moved on to destroying things instead of building things. Six. There were six of them between 2003 and 2006 where I didn’t bring it up. 😃 > [@Limmin](#): > > It’s apparently a proud product of the Department of Redundancy Department. The concept (and the acronym) were a product of the mid-60s. This was the same era that brought us bell bottoms, paisley prints, and hippies. We can authoritatively say that not _all_ of the things that came out of the sixties were a good idea. Tripler Thank Og for vanity searches. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/88 "2019-11-02T14:32:12Z")
Oh, and the dude in the OP? Poseur. Tripler I can smell the fishiness through my computer screen. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/89 "2019-11-02T23:52:13Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Air Force equivalent of Seabees. It’s an acronym (somewhat strained): [Rapid Engineer Deployable Heavy Operational Repair Squadron Engineers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Engineer_Deployable_Heavy_Operational_Repair_Squadron_Engineers) And let’s not forget Prime BEEF (Prime Base Engineer Emergency Force). Or Prime RIBS (Prime Readiness In Base Services), though they work in a different field… ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/90 "2019-11-03T23:32:47Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I am not military, but my impression is that you are right - no one who was in forgets their unit and other prominent units. My Dad was an Ensign. He did a couple of jobs, but his orders don’t even mention a “unit”, or a “ship” or anything like that. Just posted to a command. I don’t even think he ever mentioned the names of ships where he was lodged. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/91 "2019-11-04T13:32:51Z")
If he was commissioned as an Ensign and got out as an Ensign there must have been something wrong. Promotion to Lieutenant (jg) is pretty automatic after [eighteen months](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-commissioned-officer-promotions-4055887). I was in only six years but I can recall every location the Navy wanted me at. None were ships but I’m sure had I been on any, I could name them at the drop of a hat.[ul] [li]NTC Great Lakes, Illinois[/li][li]“A” and “B” schools Great Lakes, Illinois[/li][li]“C” school Corry Field, Florida[/li][li]NSG Kamiseya, Okinawa[/li][li]“C” school (on another piece of equipment) Corry Field again[/li][li]NSG Keflavik, Iceland[/li][li]NSG Winter Harbor, Maine[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/92 "2019-11-04T13:41:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just a brief tangent here, but it’s interesting that a character like Ward Cleaver in the 1950s would have needed military service in his background story. Everybody’s father was in the war. Yep. Howard Cunningham, Archie Bunker, Ward Cleaver, Dobie Gillis’ dad, all would have been in the war. P.S. My dad was almost 40 when I was born, so he was older than the dads of most of my friends, which must have been a little weird for him. He was in WWII, and most of the dads of my friends were too young for that (but maybe old enough for Korea or Vietnam). ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/93 "2019-11-04T14:08:44Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > If he was commissioned as an Ensign and got out as an Ensign there must have been something wrong. Promotion to Lieutenant (jg) is pretty automatic after [eighteen months](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-commissioned-officer-promotions-4055887). While I don’t doubt that this was true at some point in the past, we’ve had to wait 24 months to promote to LTJG for at least the last 20 years (though I believe, for at least a portion of that time, the Army was promoting to O-2 after 18 months). But, yeah, definitely automatic during that time, baring an explicit reason (like criminal conduct) not to. But if we’re going all the way back to, say, the WWII/Korean era, who knows… Especially since, back then, there was a draft and initial service commitments were much shorter for most. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/94 "2019-11-04T14:09:42Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yep. Howard Cunningham, Archie Bunker, Ward Cleaver, Dobie Gillis’ dad, all would have been in the war. > > P.S. My dad was almost 40 when I was born, so he was older than the dads of most of my friends, which must have been a little weird for him. He was in WWII, and most of the dads of my friends were too young for that (but maybe old enough for Korea or Vietnam). Same way for me. My dad was 40 when I was born. He became a Marine but just missed the fighting. I had friends who’s fathers were either Vietnam vets or hippies. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/95 "2019-11-04T17:01:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I assumed she was his wife. Perhaps she was a friend, or perhaps a second spouse. I could have told my present wife any sort of story about my past and she would likely not have known whether it was truth or fiction. > > By the way, a nitpick to others: it’s “Seabees”, not “SeaBees”. The [cartoon bee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabee#/media/File:USN-Seabees-Insignia.svg) with a machine gun and tools was drawn by a file clerk at Quonset Point, Davisville, RI, which was home to Seabee battalions for many years before being closed down in about 1974. The officers of the Seabees are members of the Navy’s Civil Engineer Corps (CEC), but are generally also referred to as Seabees. > > It’s not at all unusual for civilians not to have heard of the Naval Construction Force. I once had someone tell me that he thought they had been disbanded after WWII. People are always shocked when I tell them that in 23 years in the Navy, I never set foot on a ship. As someone else mentioned, Seabees did travel as part of the amphibious force for many, many years. One of the first priorities for them was to build airfields when they arrived at a new deployment site. By the time I joined in 1967, the only site without commercial or military air service was Diego Garcia. Seabee battalions took care of that in 1971. > > Seabees also serve in Antarctica and in UDTs (Underwater Demotion Teams); in the State Department, at Camp David and in other support billets. I helped build schools and shelters after the 1976 Guatemala earthquake, helped secure a plane crash site in St. Thomas in that same year, worked for the Dept. of State, and many other jobs. My first assignment was on a Marine base in Vietnam. There is a small Seabee museum and park in Davisville, under the watchful eye of this bad boy. [https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/5af7ed3d-5546-453e-8b94-f115d17fec96.jpg](https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/5af7ed3d-5546-453e-8b94-f115d17fec96.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/96 "2019-11-04T22:48:13Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > There is a small Seabee museum and park in Davisville, under the watchful eye of this bad boy. > > [https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/5af7ed3d-5546-453e-8b94-f115d17fec96.jpg](https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/5af7ed3d-5546-453e-8b94-f115d17fec96.jpg) There’s a [similar one](https://www.google.com/search?q=seabee+museum&sxsrf=ACYBGNQq55xyi49J7iaUfMMobe6Y3MQ88Q:1572907543794&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL66Wb0dHlAhWYnp4KHY1iDNMQ_AUIFSgE&biw=1762&bih=884#imgrc=XghDUjVb18X-xM:) in Port Hueneme, CA. There’s also a [Seabee Memorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabees_Memorial) in Arlington, VA. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/97 "2019-11-05T00:58:31Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I was in only six years but I can recall every location the Navy wanted me at. Yes, in the Navy “Location” is what is important. Partly, of course, because of the division between operational and administrative structure, and partly because you’re assigned to a fleet (or something similar) and then just tasked as required. I’m sure that most people in the Navy now train for and do something important. That wasn’t true for my Dad: he was just a warm body. He was activated directly on commission into the naval reserve, and (by choice) went back to reserve status (promoted to lieutenant) after about 18 months. He was never re-activated because of his work in a defense contractor. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/98 "2019-11-05T03:48:05Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Yes, in the Navy “Location” is what is important. Partly, of course, because of the division between operational and administrative structure, and partly because you’re assigned to a fleet (or something similar) and then just tasked as required. Some rates/designators are more likely than others to be assigned to staffs or shore-based units which then send detachments underway with deploying ships, but others are assigned to a specific ship as “ship’s company” (as distinguished from “riders” or “embarks” or what have you). Having been ship’s company for most of career, I assure you, I can remember the name of every ship I was on, in addition to where the ship happened to be located (and three out of four shifted home ports to or from overseas during my time aboard, which was painful). ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/99 "2019-11-05T11:47:21Z")
And Navy vets, do you have a ball cap from every command you served at (including TAD/TDY and Reserves)? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136/100 "2019-11-05T14:47:49Z")
(Shakes cane) Back in _my_ day there were command ball caps but they were only souvenirs handed out to Important Visitors. Us ratings wore ball caps with our work uniforms but they simply had a rank badge pinned on the front. Chiefs and officers wouldn’t be caught dead in a ball cap. Onboard a ship might have been different but that’s the way it worked ashore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-guy-guilty-of-stolen-valor/842136.md?page=6)