I wonder if the landlord is trying to claim that he lives in the house to get a better rate? Could be that he is engaging in mortgage fraud.
Yes, that seems clear from the OP. (Market interest rates for owner occupied property are lower than rates for rental property.)
I’m not a lawyer, but to a layman’s eye this looks a lot like your landlord has created documentary evidence that a) he intends to commit fraud and b) you know about it. I think you need to consider the full implications of phrases such as “accessory before the fact”. In fact, while I’m still not a lawyer, helping him by vacating the property and thus making it possible for the fraud to occur looks to me like it could land you in some very serious legal trouble.
Yes, that’s what the landlord is attempting to do. Owner-occupied properties get significantly better mortgage rates than investment/rental properties.
I’m not your lawyer, and I don’t know the law in your jurisdiction (I don’t even know where you are), but generally you are not obliged to vacate property you rent at the request of the landlord. Indeed, under the “covenant of quiet enjoyment”, the landlord has agreed not to do that at all.
There is no reason for you to leave. I have no idea whether there might be any liability for accessory to mortgage fraud to you (there probably will be for the landlord and/or the son), but it would probably be prudent for you not to change your routine in response to this apparently improper request.
I work in property management. It’s totally illegal. Fraud and all that. Trying to get a cheaper mortgage rate by claiming residence. Also, is the building even registered as a rental unit? Check with the City. If it’s not, you could get all your rental money back.
I’d love to take your word for that, but the OP might want to consult with a lawyer.
AIUI getting a housing loan that’s even remotely associated with any kind of Federal program means that everyone involved with the loan then becomes accountable to the Federal standards. In which case any misrepresentation on the loan application is fraud and can be severely punished. (Of course, since it’s white collar crime, it usually isn’t.)
I think that the OP should be both looking to move out ASAP and at the very least consider dropping the dime on this situation, simply because it would appear to be, as others have said, making them an accessory before the fact.
If the OP’s locality has a fair housing office the OP might be able to get a quick and dirty answer to the general legality of this and whether he needs to contact a lawyer, without having to pay a consult fee.
Wiki’s take on fraud. The OP is letting the landlord make a statement (I am in living in the house) that is known to be false for personal gain (getting a better mortgage rate). Claiming to live where you don’t live for personal gain is criminal fraud.
Good point.
I’m just saying that he should check out whether what’s about to happen is a state or federal crime, and whether it’s a misdemeanor or a felony. And not take our word for it.
yea, this screams BAD IDEA. When you call him to refuse, I would act like you think he may not know that it’s illegal; something like, “I guess you didn’t realize it, but this is actually illegal! Shock Horror!” If he has any sense, he’ll drop it there.
If he doesn’t have any sense (a distinct possibility), he’ll continue to press the idea. At that point you’ll have to say, “I will not participate in committing fraud.” But be aware that he will most likely hate you if it gets to that, both because you wouldn’t help, and because you pointed out he’s a schmuck (pretending like he might not know about it could mitigate this; that’s why I’d try that first).
I definitely agree with everyone else that you should get at as soon as you possibly can. I mean, look at it like this; you’ve known him less that two months, and he feels comfortable asking you to help him commit a felony. This guy has NO morals. Get out, and be prepared to deal with a bunch of shady bullshit when you do.
I was just thinking, isn’t a lease usually written to include something about “good faith” on both sides?
If that’s the case, wouldn’t documenting this behavior on the landlord’s part be a legal reason to break any lease one might have?
i.e. “He asked me to help him do something illegal, and now I don’t trust him to live up to his requirements of this contract, or to refrain from doing anything else that might involve me in his extra-legal activities.” I would hope it would be a slam-dunk reason to break a lease, but I don’t know.
Can any of our more knowledgable Dopers address this question?
The loan officer is not going to make it more difficult for them. The bank is going to make it more expensive for them. I wonder if he got his first mortgage loan by claiming he was going to live there?
ETA: Our New Jersey leases state that any illegal activity immediately invalidates the lease. Check out your lease Lightnin’
This event is now past history.
Lightnin’, what happened?
In New York, at least, illegal use may, in some cases, be a basis by which a landlord may evict a tenant, though this varies by the nature of the illegal use, whether it is continuous, and if it is possible to cure the breach by ceasing the illegality. It is much more difficult, on the other hand, for a tenant to break a lease if the landlord does something illegal, unless the illegal conduct directly impacts on the tenant’s occupancy of the leased premises. Under New York law, this is a very thorny area with lots of subtle distinctions.
Though I have not researched the issue, I would strongly suspect that a landlord’s merely asking a tenant leave for an inspection which might assist in a mortgage application misrepresentation would not be a sustainable basis for getting out of an otherwise valid lease under New York law.
However, this is of course fact sensitive, whatever jurisdiction you may be in. Before attempting to break a lease, I would strongly urge anyone to consult with qualified local counsel who may review the particulars of your case.
I sent the landlord an email saying that I’m not comfortable being a party to a lie like this- and their response was to ignore the potentially illegal aspects of the situation and to remind me that they have the right to enter the house if they give me 24 hour’s notice. Oh, and that their loan officer knows all about it (apparently, it’s the appraiser (?) that needs to see that the son is living in the house). I was wrong on when they’re doing this thing- it’s going to be tomorrow afternoon.
Well, whatever. I’ve started looking for another place to live. Luckily, I don’t have to give them more than a month’s notice- even though I’d been willing to sign a year’s lease, the lease they ended up giving me is month-to-month.
So you’re are not just gonna hang around hoping the appraiser finds out the son is only there as part of a sham?
Entering the house, and asking you not to be there, are two entirely different things. Yes, they have the right to an inspection. But you have every right to be the one who answers the door.
IANAL or a realtor, but this doesn’t even make any sense. Why should the appraiser care? The house could be empty and his appraisal wouldn’t change.
Good plan.
This thread is the first time I have ever encountered the word “hinky”.
Carry on.
What is a “hinky”?
Urban Dictionary has it as a vague feeling of something being wrong or out of place.
For me it’s always conjured the gestalt of the feeling you have after you’ve hit your funny bone on something. It’s bad, it’s wrong, but it’s not painful, and you can’t describe why you feel so negatively about the experience.