# Is this "hostile work environment" claim full of shit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821 "2009-02-14T15:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/21 "2009-02-14T18:30:10Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > Excellent point by \*\*Hello Again \*\*on the retailiation. Very true. > > Somehow I didn’t catch that they don’t work for you. In that case, let their managers handle it, by all means. > > But I wouldn’t count on the concept of “working on a work project on their own time” as holding up. If they are non-exempt, they would need to be paid for the time they spent working, and if they are exempt, the concept of “their own time” isn’t very clear. They are paid for the work, not the time. Here’s the thing: I’m the trainer for the inside sales department. I have a small staff who work under me, and we handle the new hire orientation, the continuing education on product knowledge & procedures, & so forth. Because I have to give the sexual harassment speech to everybody who starts, and because nobody else wants to do it, it’s evolved that I’m the first contact on sexual harassment issues that involve persons from different teams. So in no way do I have any direct supervisory authority over any of these people, except in the sense that all the managers do. (I wrote in another thread about a much clearer instance of a worker creating a hostile environment–the guy who was watching Monica Bellucci get raped on screen at his desk–in which I did exercise the general managerial authority.) So it could be interpreted that I’m being instructed to do something outside my job description. Or you could interpret it the other way. But the more I think about it, ANY way you interpret it, Eowyn’s either full or crap or starting up shit for the fun of it. It’s just not reasonable for her to think she can mandate what Aragorn has as his personal screensaver. It’s like she’s complaining about the nude picture of my wife that’s in my home office. (Which she would do if she knew about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Karyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/fbc32d/32.png) [@Karyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karyn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/22 "2009-02-14T18:39:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > As I wrote above, I want to stay out of it the more I think about it. None of them work under me; let their managers do it. That’s how I would feel. I would document it as quickly as possible, send it off to their manager and copy in yours. If they tell you to give the speech I’d think that you’d have to, but I wouldn’t do the blatant smirk or eye roll thing no matter what you think. It could just add fuel to her fire. I was always a big fan of taking things to Personnel and letting them work through it with me from the beginning. After a while you come to appreciate that they really do know a lot more about this stuff and it’s not just a good CYA. Screwing up and getting entangled in a union grievance just wasn’t worth it for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/23 "2009-02-14T18:50:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So on Monday I’m going to have to give the sexual harassment lecture to two of the staff, and I don’t think they deserve it. Here’s the scoop: > > There is a Starbuck’s not far from my office frequented by many of the staff. A few days ago, two of them – “Boromir” & “Aragorn” – went there after work to work on a sales proposal over lattes. In our company, insides sales account executives here don’t have company laptops, so they were using Aragorn’s personal one. While they were working, a third account exec, “Eowyn,” came in alone to do homework. She sat near the other two, exchanged pleasantries, and got to work. > > On Friday morning Eowyn filed a sexual harassment complaint. Why? you ask. Because at one point during the evening, Boromir got up to go the bathroom or whatever, and a moment after that Aragorn got up to get a fresh coffee. While both where gone, the laptop’s screensaver activated, and Eowyn got a glimpse of it. And it was (gasp!) pictures of **men in speedos**. > > Eowyn’s fairly conservative, and this vision left her scandalized. She complained the next day that by leaving the laptop visible in her sight, while it was being used on a company project, Boromir & Aragorn clearly were trying to create a hostile work environment. > > I think this is…well, stupid. She sat beside them. The laptop doesn’t belong to the company. They weren’t on company property. I’m pretty sure she knows Aragorn’s gay. > > And yet I have to give them the speech. > > Anyway…thoughts? Is Eowyn as full of crap as I think? Or has she a point I’m missing? My thoughts? Your whole country is fucked. If this woman has a position in your company where she has to interact with people, your company is also fucked. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/24 "2009-02-14T19:01:00Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > My thoughts? Your whole country is fucked. If this woman has a position in your company where she has to interact with people, your company is also fucked. Really. And you feel this is true because…? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/25 "2009-02-14T19:16:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And you feel this is true because…? If I have to spell it out then there is no hope of you understanding it. So a pointless exercise. But you seem, from your initial post, to know that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. In fact your thread title says “full of shit” in it. Your instincts are correct. What else is there to say? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/26 "2009-02-14T19:19:09Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > If I have to spell it out then there is no hope of you understanding it. So a pointless exercise. But you seem, from your initial post, to know that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. In fact your thread title says “full of shit” in it. Your instincts are correct. What else is there to say? Actually I was wondering why you chose to slander our entire nation. I mean, there’s 300,000,000 of us. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/27 "2009-02-14T19:31:13Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Actually I was wondering why you chose to slander our entire nation. I mean, there’s 300,000,000 of us. Numbers are irrelevant. Think about what factors came in to play to make you have to spend valuable time responding to this “stupid” complaint. If you have no knowledge about how things work in other countries then I’ll just give you a pass, and hope you’ll forgive my ‘slander’. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/28 "2009-02-14T19:36:09Z")
Sounds like she has a problem with gays and will make life difficult for them at the slightest inclination. How can she even claim sexual harassment anyway when they were at Starbucks? Even if the guy was watching porn on his computer I don’t see where she would have a viable complaint to the company. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/29 "2009-02-14T19:37:04Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > My thoughts? Your whole country is fucked. If this woman has a position in your company where she has to interact with people, your company is also fucked. Really. Wow. The entire United States of America is fucked because of ONE woman at ONE company. I’ll alert the media. We’ll just hand over the keys to China and ask them to turn the lights out. Yeesh…how the hell did you manage to pick up that big of a brush, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/30 "2009-02-14T19:45:54Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Numbers are irrelevant. Think about what factors came in to play to make you have to spend valuable time responding to this “stupid” complaint. If you have no knowledge about how things work in other countries then I’ll just give you a pass, and hope you’ll forgive my ‘slander’. [Personal comments being, quite justly, verboten hereabouts, I have set up a plate of tea and cookies for Isamu in a certain subterranean forum.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506564) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/31 "2009-02-14T20:10:05Z")
As a side issue, does either your company or your state have anti-harassment policies/laws regarding sexual orientation? Because it might behoove these fellows to start taking notes. Not knowing anything about HR, I’ll nod at what **Harriet the Spry** and **Hello Again** had to say, but it also seems to me that between what she thought about same-sex marriage and now this, Eowyn might try some other maneuvers in the future against Aragorn that might prove actionable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/32 "2009-02-14T20:16:26Z")
Well, it has to be taken on a case by case basis. Did someone interview her? Did others see it? Was it a one off event? Did A & B do this intentionally? (Apparently not) Is she offended by men in Speedo’s regularly? Based on what I know, I would have a talk with the two men to make sure they didn’t do it again, but not discipline them. I would not have a talk with her because she seems to me to be playing a game and trying to set up a retaliation claim against the company. But I would make sure that the information about this claim was retained, including her known conservative views and that at least one of the men is gay. I would have her and all the other people in her position attend sexual harassment prevention training and talk about how complaining about gay people for slight infractions could make for hostile environment. I consider the speedo thing to be trivial. The conservative picking on the gay guy for the speedo is not trivial, it looks like conservo lady is potentially creating a hostile environment. Tread very carefully here and make sure you let headquarters know everything that is going on and keep copies of your records. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/33 "2009-02-14T20:21:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, it has to be taken on a case by case basis. Did someone interview her? Did others see it? Was it a one off event? Did A & B do this intentionally? (Apparently not) Is she offended by men in Speedo’s regularly? > > Based on what I know, I would have a talk with the two men to make sure they didn’t do it again, but not discipline them. > > I would not have a talk with her because she seems to me to be playing a game and trying to set up a retaliation claim against the company. But I would make sure that the information about this claim was retained, including her known conservative views and that at least one of the men is gay. I would have her and all the other people in her position attend sexual harassment prevention training and talk about how complaining about gay people for slight infractions could make for hostile environment. > > I consider the speedo thing to be trivial. The conservative picking on the gay guy for the speedo is not trivial, it looks like conservo lady is potentially creating a hostile environment. > > Tread very carefully here and make sure you let headquarters know everything that is going on and keep copies of your records. All very wise. Even wiser, however, is the notion that I should keep my black ass out of it. (For those of you who are of European descent & culture: that’s a common phrasing amongst my people. I’d have used the N word but I don’t want to shock the young’ns.) I agree that Eowyn (whom I should have given a better pseudonym, damn it! I love Eowyn!) is trying to do something sketchy. My current plan is to walk gentle and speak low, as is advised when wild things is about. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/34 "2009-02-14T20:21:55Z")
She sounds like an easily offended prude. I’ve worked with them. They think every thing they don’t like is an offense that others have to concede to to their will about. They are intolerant of their having a brief exposure to something they don’t like even if it’s not an offense to most other people. Most people can just ignore what they don’t like and forget about it unless it reoccurs or is illegal. Something like this needs to be officially addressed so the woman doesn’t think she’s being brushed off. From me the two guys would just get a don’t use scanty clad men screen savers when you work on a project around work. That would be all I told the guys. I would only tell the woman the guys were told men on screen savers will now be required to wear at least fly briefs for work projects. Ok maybe you shouldn’t tell the woman the fly briefs bit.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/35 "2009-02-14T20:22:46Z")
Ok, here’s the deal. Eowyn is clearly an uptight pain in the ass, however, everyone in this thread is overreacting in the other direction. Your other two associates were working on a company project and thus representing the company. Also, regardless whether or not it is the associates laptop, they use it both in the office and out for company business. It is not inappropriate for you to give them a talk about how they should not have half-nakid pictures of people on their laptops where it can be seen by coworkers, clients, or other people who will associate them with your company. This is not a legal matter. This is a matter of corporate policy and common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/36 "2009-02-14T20:30:41Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Ok, here’s the deal. Eowyn is clearly an uptight pain in the ass, however, everyone in this thread is overreacting in the other direction. > > Your other two associates were working on a company project and thus representing the company. Also, regardless whether or not it is the associates laptop, they use it both in the office and out for company business. It is not inappropriate for you to give them a talk about how they should not have half-nakid pictures of people on their laptops where it can be seen by coworkers, clients, or other people who will associate them with your company. > > This is not a legal matter. This is a matter of corporate policy and common sense. I’m reasonably certain they don’t use it in the office, simply because there’s no point. In the office they have their desktop units, which are connected to the internet and intranet and whatnot. There’s no wireless access for account execs in the office, which means there’s not much reason for them to use the laptops in the office. What the guys were doubtlessly doing was tweaking a Powerpoint presentation they had begun while at work. I used to do that when I had their job. Save the presentation to a thumb drive, load it onto their laptop, work on it over a burger. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/37 "2009-02-14T20:30:51Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > She sounds like an easily offended prude. I’ve worked with them. They think every thing they don’t like is an offense that others have to concede to to their will about. They are intolerant of their having a brief exposure to something they don’t like even if it’s not an offense to most other people. Most people can just ignore what they don’t like and forget about it unless it reoccurs or is illegal. The flip side of that is you could show some consideration that someone feels offended by a particular image or subject matter. That’s the problem. The guy with the Playboy pinup is always the one who is like “I should have my way and everyone else just needs to lighten up!” You are in a place of business there is a certain professional decorum that is expected. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/38 "2009-02-14T20:38:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The flip side of that is you could show some consideration that someone feels offended by a particular image or subject matter. That’s the problem. The guy with the Playboy pinup is always the one who is like “I should have my way and everyone else just needs to lighten up!” You are in a place of business there is a certain professional decorum that is expected. They weren’t in a place of business. Well, that’s not true. They weren’t in THEIR place of business. Right now the wallpaper on my work computer is a picture of **Kim the Rhymer** sitting on my lap. It’s been known to offend people who don’t like the notion of a fair-hued damsel such as herself being intimate with a swarthy Nubian such as me. Should I change it to a picture puppies? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/39 "2009-02-14T20:42:48Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Sounds like she has a problem with gays and will make life difficult for them at the slightest inclination. This. There is a hostile work environment claim here, but it’s not hers: it’s the two men. This woman is using the “hostile work environment” hammer as a tool for manufacturing an actual hostile work environment for people she has a personal problem with. What state are you in? ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/40 "2009-02-14T20:45:15Z")
A.) Eowyn (I agree: poor choice of pseudonym) is trouble. She could be anything from a religious-nut / prude who thinks that the whole world should be as she feels it should to a skank trying to get some lawsuit money. B.) Aragorn did something that allowed Eowyn to either get back at him for being gay or get the ball rolling on her pay-out. Using a personal computer for work is fine, but common sense demands that one treat it as a work computer for the duration of work-use. IOW, while I don’t care what (legal) images he chooses to view while not at work, he is setting himself up for trouble by not “bland-izing” his computer for work. I would still have a talk with Aragorn. I’m not certain that Boromir needs to included. I would also watch my back with Eowyn and document every little stupid thing that comes out of her mouth (especially if it is in anyway anti-gay). Given what you have mentioned here, I think that she has been creating way more of a hostile work environment than Aragorn ever has. (Based only on what I see here, of course.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821.md?page=3)