# Is this "hostile work environment" claim full of shit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821 "2009-02-14T15:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/61 "2009-02-15T00:15:13Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > What state are you in? IIRC **Skald** and **Kim** live in Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/62 "2009-02-15T00:58:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > His hyperbole is somewhat justified, in my opinion. The country’s fuckedness doesn’t derive from the one woman at one company, but the fact that in our current society, the woman’s claim—which deserves to meet with mocking laughter, at best—has to be taken seriously and treated gingerly, simply to avoid potentially devastating legal and financial repercussions. I believe it is because people no longer view companies as a place where things are made and services are performed so the people who work in those companies can make money. They are now viewed as institutions, similar to a school perhaps, where as long as you attend by sitting in your cubicle and do your classwork assignments, you can collect your paycheck. In a sense, people in the modern corporate office act like incapable children and expect to be taken care of. No offense to Skald, but I blame lawyers and HR departments and all these other people who are essentially useless to the core business of what the company does. Not like I’m any less guilty. I make a lot of money more or less advising the legal department(s) of a Fortune 500 company basically as to what technologies are best for reading the employees emails when we get sued. I can think of nothing more useless to the organization. At least when I was a consultant, I was in the BUSINESS of providing those same services. Now I’m just one more cog like every other idiot in my office. Not really producing anything other than paperwork or useless reports no one reads until some Vice President determines I am an unnecessary cost and I get laid off. That’s probably why people could get away with the crap I described in a previous post about my old job. As long as I’m selling million dollar projects or billing out at $300 an hour, no one will take seriously the sort of crap the OP describes. As I mentioned, the office manager used to call us on comments far worse constantly. All she would get is a eye rolling from management and guffaws of “Ooooo! Look out with those comments or Stacy will get you!” But as companies get bigger, they get more bloated and beurocratic and they develop entire infrastructures dedicated to making sure everyone plays nice. ---
**Author:** ![Bolt\_the\_Nut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bolt\_the\_Nut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bolt_the_Nut)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/63 "2009-02-15T01:47:13Z")
What it boils down to is whether or not Aragorn and Boromir intended for Gothmog to see the screen saver. Did they ask her to “keep an eye on the computer” while they hid around the corner giggling? Or did they leave the computer unattended (very silly) and she just happened to see something on a non-work computer in a non-work location, where that computer happened to be owned by a co-worker? If the former, she has a basis for a complaint. If the latter, no basis. I suspect both sides have been jabbing at the other for a while. HR would be wise to talk to both sides. Aragorn and Boromir need to keep their sexual orientation out of the workplace, and Gothmog needs to keep her religious beliefs out of the workplace. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/64 "2009-02-15T01:50:53Z")
> [@Bolt\_the\_Nut](#): > > I suspect both sides have been jabbing at the other for a while. HR would be wise to talk to both sides. Aragorn and Boromir need to keep their sexual orientation out of the workplace, and Gothmog needs to keep her religious beliefs out of the workplace. Nothing happened in the workplace. Whatever happened, happened at a Starbucks. And nothing that the two men did had anything to do with sexual orientation, as far as we know. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/65 "2009-02-15T02:32:01Z")
> [@Bolt\_the\_Nut](#): > > I suspect both sides have been jabbing at the other for a while. HR would be wise to talk to both sides. Aragorn and Boromir need to keep their sexual orientation out of the workplace, and Gothmog needs to keep her religious beliefs out of the workplace. Yes, everyone must keep their sexual orientation out of the workplace. No discussing husbands, wives, girlfriends or boyfriends. No mentioning what you did last weekend if it includes them. Any mentions of dates must be kept gender-neutral. No pictures of children and/or SO’s allowed–might be a little hint as to your sexual orientation. Any casual chitchat over the watercooler over some cute boys on TV is strictly verboten–might give away the fact that you are a heterosexual female!! _gasp_ Let’s see… what else did I forget? Oh, yes. You aren’t allowed to mention these things ANYWHERE since Starbucks now counts as a workplace. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/66 "2009-02-15T04:10:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Eowyn’s complaint, as I’ve read it, is not merely pissy, it’s homophobic, and smacks of “I’ve been looking for a way to stick it to this gay boy.” If that’s the case, then perhaps he’s the one who should be filing a “hostile work environment” claim. Really. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/67 "2009-02-15T05:33:12Z")
Gothmog was a _chick_? :eek: I would have used Shelob, myself, or Lobelia. But Gothmog. There’s some serious bad-assedness there. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/68 "2009-02-15T14:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > **Harriet the Spry** said: > I don’t think the “not on company property” thing would hold any water if that were your only defense. Otherwise everyone on a business trip would be fair game for whatever type of harassment came their way. > > \ > > If I were having to give this talk, I would focus on “when you are doing company business, you need to be 100% professional. If you wouldn’t wear it on your t-shirt or your bumper sticker to do company business, you shouldn’t put it on your screen saver. It can create a legal risk for the company.” It’s impossible to keep the stick up your ass 24 hours a day and be 100% professional all the time. I travel extensively for work, and have found that while people pretend that we (software engineers) are civilized people while in the offices of the customer, all of that ends the minute we leave the office. We figure out fast who the uptight and the prudes are, cause there aren’t that many, and then we who like to let our hair down go about our fun as we wish. Things are even more wild at the annual company conference, where there’s free liquor all day long and a thousand computer geeks from various countries are far away from home staying in some resort. I believe there is a reason HR is not invited to the conference, and it very likely has something to do with the fact that their heads would explode if they saw us not acting like little politically correct robots. The only useful shit HR ever did was send me the form for direct deposit of my pay. Beyond that, we all absolutely hate it any time they are anywhere near one of the offices, and we do whatever we can to avoid attending their little speeches which always have to involve some kind of activity like drawing your favorite hobbies or getting to know stupid things about your coworkers. But they have to do this shit to justify the fact that they have a job, since they don’t produce or create anything that is actually useful. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/69 "2009-02-15T17:59:45Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Wow. If that’s a hostile work environment, I work in a Taliban training camp. One of the bone radiologists with whom I trained kept a variety of scantily clad models on his work computer as screen savers. And there’s just no reason for that in a work environment. The OP is a lot grayer, but this one? Why wouldn’t he think twice before using a work computer that way? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/70 "2009-02-15T18:27:56Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Right now the wallpaper on my work computer is a picture of **Kim the Rhymer** sitting on my lap. It’s been known to offend people who don’t like the notion of a fair-hued damsel such as herself being intimate with a swarthy Nubian such as me. Should I change it to a picture puppies? Are the puppies wearing speedos? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/71 "2009-02-15T23:01:07Z")
The company I work for policy basically says anything short of sexual assault; the offended is obligated to tell the offendie (sp?) that he/she is offended by ‘x’ action. If the offended doesn’t do this; HR will politely tell the offended to exit their office. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/72 "2009-02-15T23:16:12Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Things are even more wild at the annual company conference, where there’s free liquor all day long and a thousand computer geeks from various countries are far away from home staying in some resort. I want to go to there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/73 "2009-02-15T23:17:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: whistles innocently :: > > Why, I would never think of doing such a thing. Given a task to perform, I perform it without reservation or equivocation. > > The more I think about it, the more I think I need to politely decline to give this speech. Whoever does it is opening himself up to something irritating from Aragorn, and probably Boromir too. (I don’t know whether Boromir is gay.) Eowyn’s complaint, as I’ve read it, is not merely pissy, it’s homophobic, and smacks of “I’ve been looking for a way to stick it to this gay boy.” If you do end up having to give the speech, you probably wouldn’t want to insert any jokes, or do anything obviously unprofessional - but there are other ways you could let Aragorn and Boromir know that _you_ know they aren’t pervy bastards. Something like: 1.) Gentlemen, we’ve gotten a complaint, and our company policy requires that I review our sexual harassment regs with you … [reviews regs] 2.) You should know that these regs protect _you_ as well. If anyone behaves in a way at work that makes you feel uncomfortable, or insults you on the basis of your sex or orientation, you should report it. We want a safe, comfortable office environment for all our employees. 3.) Guys, you’ve done great work for this company [assuming that’s true], and we’re glad to have you here. This isn’t going in your permanent record - just keep these rules in mind in future. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/74 "2009-02-15T23:22:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > They weren’t in a place of business. Well, that’s not true. They weren’t in THEIR place of business. > > Right now the wallpaper on my work computer is a picture of **Kim the Rhymer** sitting on my lap. It’s been known to offend people who don’t like the notion of a fair-hued damsel such as herself being intimate with a swarthy Nubian such as me. Should I change it to a picture puppies? Come on, that’s not a fair question. Puppies are neat! (Maybe you could photoshop some puppies into the picture?) /Wanders off, nodding politely at the point as it passes him by. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/75 "2009-02-16T16:31:02Z")
Please be sure to update us once your company makes a decision what to do, **Skald** (if they tell you). I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/76 "2009-02-16T18:04:39Z")
Reading through this thread I was reminded of a meeting I had with a boss a couple of years ago. Someone made a bullshit complaint about me (retaliation for busting them on something) and he was “required” to speak to me about it. (Walk into meeting room, close door, sit down) Him: I’m required to speak to you about this issue, so we’re speaking. In the end, our “talk” consisted of that first sentence. That was it. It was never mentioned again. We spent a half hour shooting the shit. Basically a long paid break for both of us. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/77 "2009-02-16T20:06:05Z")
Does Eowyn have a history of complaining? Don’t know how high up you are in the food chain, but would you have access to her files? Maybe you could total up how much of a petty bitch she is in document count, along with charts and diagrams with plenty of circles and arrows. Maybe Aragorn can make a written complaint that she harassed him in a homophobic manner by making the sexual harassment complaint. That would be just as full of BS as her complaint, but it would be present on her work record. Yes, it’s all cheap, petty and vindictive, but it would give her a taste of her own medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/78 "2009-02-16T20:08:00Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Does Eowyn have a history of complaining? Don’t know how high up you are in the food chain, but would you have access to her files? Maybe you could total up how much of a petty bitch she is in document count, along with charts and diagrams with plenty of circles and arrows. I can read anybody’s files–well, any of the sales staff’s files–that I want to. In fact I could read her individual email if I felt like it. But I don’t, because I am keeping my black ass out of it unless Aragorn asks me for help. And it’s GOTHMOG. We like Eowyn. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/79 "2009-02-16T20:10:43Z")
Hmm. Eowyn was at Starbucks, working on homework. NOT on her paid work. Right? Therefore, Eowyn was not at work. Therefore, there is no “hostile work environment”. Sheer coincidence that she happened to bump into her colleagues at Starbucks. Had they just been having a coffee and surfing the web there, would she have filed the same complaint? Well, maybe - but she’d have had even less grounds for doing so. Sounds like she just wants to get in A’s personal life and prevent him from enjoying a nice picture _anywhere_. Short answer, E. is full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821/80 "2009-02-16T22:26:53Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Also, be very, very careful about doing anything that might look like punishing Eowyn for her complaint. A case for Retaliation can exist even if the underlying complaint was completely bogus. Probably the worst, most common mistake companies make is turning a crappy Sexual Harassment case (one the employer would surely win) into a slam-dunk Retaliation case (one the employer would surely lose). Yes! A woman I know was very sensitive to sexual harassment. So sensitive that many times I couldn’t see it. So…she pressed a sexual harassment charge against a NUN (she worked for a Catholic church owned company - and no I am not making this crap up!) for ‘patting her on the butt’. I knew this nun and I do not believe for a second it was sexual. Not wise to do this but come on - sexual harassment?! The company dealt with it. The woman got the ‘I’m sorry you thought I was sexually harassing you’ nonapology and things were relatively fine. Then the nun retaliated. I thought she would be smart enough to wait some period of time like a couple of years AND would retaliate over something serious. Nooooo…she retaliated within a month and over something marginal pressing for termination. There was a termination…the nun…and probably a mark on her record. Stupid…stupid. So, do not be overly cavalier here. If you are, they may feel comfortable in retaliating and then you get dragged into something more serious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-hostile-work-environment-claim-full-of-shit/485821.md?page=5)