# Is this how Jews felt in pre-Nazi Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071 "2022-12-06T00:35:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/181 "2022-12-08T06:00:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And underground networks of people helping […] people […] to literally escape states, _Plus ça change , plus c’est la même chose_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/182 "2022-12-08T06:59:13Z")
How did the Jews feel in pre-Nazi Germany? A lot less anxious than a lot of us feel now, _because they didn’t have a previous historically recent “Holocaust” to compare their current situation with, the way we do._ They couldn’t know how far and how fast the situation could deteriorate, or how much evil their friends and neighbors would be willing to tolerate and/or openly support. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/183 "2022-12-08T09:30:35Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It’s all happening right there, right now, all out in the open. The question to you would be: are you seeing it? And if you aren’t, ask yourself why? …and literally today: > [@Erin in the Morning](#): > > South Carolina just released [a new law](https://legiscan.com/SC/text/S0274/2023)that goes beyond trans youth and instead would ban transgender people up to the age of 21 from receiving gender affirming care. It would criminalize doctors from providing gender affirming care for trans youth as well. It doesn’t stop there though. The bill would also ban informed consent hormone therapy, the most common form of hormone therapy for all transgender adults, and would require psychiatrists to sign off on gender affirming care - a model of care that has been outdated since the 1990s. It bans public funds for gender affirming care. It bans comprehensive health programs from encouraging transition for trans students. Lastly, it forces teachers to out students who they even _suspect_ are trans to their parents. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/184 "2022-12-08T12:53:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They couldn’t know how far and how fast the situation could deteriorate, or how much evil their friends and neighbors would be willing to tolerate and/or openly support. It’s not like there hadn’t been plenty of deadly pogroms before the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/185 "2022-12-08T13:20:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Many Nietzsche scholars would say the English sense of “Superman” misses out on a lot of nuance. And if it misses the nuance, it’s not a _good_ literal translation. And you entirely miss the point. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Nobody has done that. Well: > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Do people not know what that means and where it comes from? Sorry for the ranty side note, it makes me angry > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > the connotation is all too clear. It is a dog-whistle I take the accusation of dog whistling that they did so with intent. Are you saying that people can dog whistle _unintentionally_? Does that even make sense to you? > [@MrDibble](#): > > You do realize you’re arguing with more than one _actual German_ about the connotations of a _German_ word to _Germans_. Less an argument and more a discussion about proper preposition use, where they fully admit that the word is used in everyday speech. But it is _not_ about the connotations of a _German_ word to _Germans_, it is the connotations that the English loanword has in the United States to US citizens. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Which is peak Yanksplaining, IMO. And what, in your opinion, would you call being lectured to by a South African about cultural and linguistic issues in the US? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/186 "2022-12-08T13:44:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Less an argument and more a discussion about proper preposition use, where they fully admit that the word is used in everyday speech. But it is _not_ about the connotations of a _German_ word to _Germans_, it is the connotations that the English loanword has in the United States to US citizens. I can’t speak for @Pardel-Lux, though I’m quite sure that he meant it the same way as I, that it’s first and foremost a dog-whistle for _Germans_. Maybe we both didn’t make that clear enough, but see here: > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > It is a dog-whistle: if you don’t feel it, you are not the audience. > > As a fellow German, I can absolutely confirm that “Uber” is a giant dog-whistle, immediately bringing “Deutschland über alles” and “Übermensch” to mind. Many Germans are well-informed about our history and very sensible about symbols, speech and memes used by the nazis (at least I hope so), so that a company called “Uber” immediately is alarming for us. Maybe I used the word dog-whistle wrongly, I don’t know if a dog-whistle can be unintentional per definition, which it would be in the case of an American company that hasn’t researched the connotations of this word in _Germany_. A lack of such research though is inexcusable. And no, it’s in no way a discussion about the use of prepositions, that’s a red herring that came solely from you. It isn’t about prepositions because in the context we discuss it, the word isn’t used as a preposition, but as a proper name of a company. As I mentioned before, one word can have multiple meanings, even contradictory meanings in different contexts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/187 "2022-12-08T13:54:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And you entirely miss the point. If there was more of a point than “Uber = Super”, I clearly did. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I take the accusation of dog whistling that they did so with intent I think you can, yes - I read that as P-L saying the word is a known Far Right dog whistle in Germany, and Uber should have known better, not that Uber “intentionally chose its name with the _specific intent_ of appealing to nazis”[sic] > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But it is _not_ about the connotations of a _German_ word to _Germans_ Pardel-Lux clearly was talking about the German connotations: > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Part of the due diligence when naming international companies is checking what the name proposed mean in other languages, and Uber has clear nazi connotations and reminiscenses in German > [@k9bfriender](#): > > And what, in your opinion, would you call being lectured to by a South African about cultural and linguistic issues in the US? I’m not lecturing you on US language issues. By the time I got involved, it very much was about how the word is perceived _in Germany._ ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/188 "2022-12-08T13:58:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Pardel-Lux clearly was talking about the German connotations: > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > Part of the due diligence when naming international companies is checking what the name proposed mean in other languages, and Uber has clear nazi connotations and reminiscenses in German That’s a good point about @Pardel-Lux’s intent I forgot to quote. When I first stepped into this discussion to confirm his point, I meant it in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/189 "2022-12-08T14:31:49Z")
There is some truth in that! There had been pogroms, but not efficiently organized by the State. So people may be more worried today because of the precedent. And, even worse, the nazis know that it has worked once and may try or are trying to repeat it. Or at least emulate it, changing Jews for Trans-people, as has been described (something which is not such a problem at all in my neck of the woods, i.e. the [gay paradise](https://www.misterbandb.com/gay-guide/germany/berlin/gay-district/schoneberg) Schöneberg) or whatever enemy they choose. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But it is _not_ about the connotations of a _German_ word to _Germans_, it is the connotations that the English loanword has in the United States to US citizens. Leave me in peace with this crap, will you? I never talk in the name of US citizens, I hardly know one. I talk in my name. And that is not what I said. So, now: cut it off, OK? This subject is boring and you are becoming tedious. Go away and think about why this side remark is so relevant for you that you get all huffed and puffed up and want to misinterpret it until someone tells you you are right. Well: you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/190 "2022-12-08T14:48:34Z")
Hey, feel you OP. I somewhat recently had a thread in the Pit about the feeling I needed to buy a handgun and learn how to use it, which I did. After I did that, my 29-year-old daughter who is as peaceful and almost hippy-like as you can be with no anger or threat in her entire body came to me and wants to learn how to shoot it. This almost dropped me onto the floor as I never, in a million years, thought she would do this. I asked her why and she basically said she felt under threat and would like to have one around just in case. At least it makes buying Christmas presents easier…some classes. After this last election, I feel a lessening of this feeling but it might be wishful thinking. However, I have taken to keeping the pistol in a gun safe at the gun club instead of at home. It just FEELS like a lessening of the threat. I hope this is true for me and for you. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/191 "2022-12-08T15:07:27Z")
Just to let you know, this thread has affected my brain. I had a nightmare where the repubs took over and started executing dems by the arena-full. I barely escaped alive, and had to go on the run like SNLs “The Liberal”. Whenever anyone suspected me, I’d just call them a chimo and they’d back off. One smart guy (who looked like CSI NIck Stokes) was catching on, so I planted some evidence that made it look like he ate soy burgers, as protection. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/192 "2022-12-08T15:25:18Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And underground networks of people helping transgender people and people needing an abortion to literally escape states, then things are that bad. In my anger I forgot to thank you for your detailed and sad answer. Where I live the LGTBQ+ community is not so demonised, but I am sure there will be other minorities in the sights of moral majorities almost everywhere, so here too. The question whether it is so bad already in the USA must thus be answered with: Yes, for some communities in some places. The other question I ask myself is: why the LGBTQ+ community, or the Trans-people? They are not powerful, they are not culturally prevalent, they are not a proper enemy! ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/193 "2022-12-08T15:37:15Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > … why the LGBTQ+ community, or the Trans-people? They are not powerful, they are not culturally prevalent … You partially answered your own question. They’re not powerful, so it’s textbook GOP punching down. Also … they’re “weird.” Men pretending to be women! Women pretending to be men! People acting like they have no fixed gender at all! “Weird” has always been a target for bullies, so it’s only natural the right has fixated on LGBTQ, especially the T and Q. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/194 "2022-12-08T15:40:06Z")
I must be weird too, as I feel that if I had an enemy I would like my enemy to be strong and mighty, so my glory when defeating them would be so much greater, sung by bards and admired by beautiful damsels. Or perhaps I am just old fashioned and delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/195 "2022-12-08T15:43:23Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I must be weird too, as I feel that if I had an enemy I would like my enemy to be strong and mighty … Love your answer. But see, that’s part of the right’s strategy, too. They act as if the trans community _is_ strong and mighty – a horde of weirdos lurking in restrooms coast to coast, ready to groom your children into their sick culture. That’s why we have to pass laws and clamp down on them _now_, before they get too strong to resist. I wish I were exaggerating, but I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/196 "2022-12-08T15:51:24Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > The other question I ask myself is: why the LGBTQ+ community, or the Trans-people? They are not powerful, they are not culturally prevalent, they are not a proper enemy! Because they’re “different”. The demonization of the LGBTQ+ community isn’t because they’re strong, it’s because it’s really really easy to fear monger to a certain portion of the voting population. If you know nothing about transitioning, it sounds horrible that “Doctors are operating on 8-year-olds!” (when in fact the only operations on 8-year-olds would be if genitalia was ambiguous). That makes it really easy to get the masses riled up over “child trans care”. Kinda like late term abortions. THE ONLY TIME they are actually performed is when there are significant medical problems for either the mother or the child, but because the prevalent procedure was called “partial birth”, it became really really easy to demonize. Let’s face it - there really aren’t that many trans kids out there, and the ones that are out there often are closeted, so it’s reasonable to believe that 70% or more of voters don’t know any trans kids; none of this affects their day-to-day life. And, let’s face it, it’s only very recently that “trans” has become more common. When I was a kid (in the 70s), you only heard about a couple of people AT ALL. It was a sit-com joke in the 80s (I’m remembering an episode of Night Court). I truly think that it’s just the latest scare to rile up the uneducated base, just to get votes. You can scream about this perversion because your target audience is only going to hear your screaming; they’re not going to hear the calm alternate voice saying that pre-puberty surgeries don’t happen, and the pre-puberty hormone treatments and psychiatric care have lowered suicide rates significantly. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/197 "2022-12-08T15:54:31Z")
Yep. It’s the “existential threat” excuse. LGBTQs are an existential threat because it will turn your sons into trans girls who will then molest the other girls, immigrants will make it so your grandchildren will have to say “si, señor” to someone, atheists will make God damn us all to Hell, and Liberals want to allow all that and tax you to support it. We are fighting the End Time Battle, brother!!! ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/198 "2022-12-08T15:55:01Z")
Yes, I am afraid I see what you mean. Know what? The Jews were never actually very powerful. They were never that numerous either, much less so after being slaughtered by the millions. Ever since I was a child I wondered why they chose them as the foe. And they acted like you said, claiming they were powerful, and insidious, and corrupting… I spare you the details, I guess you know them as well as I do. So thanks everyone for showing me this side of US society. I had a vage notion of the difficulties of/with the LGBTQ+ community, but I did not realize it was that serious. Sorry to read that. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/199 "2022-12-08T16:15:27Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Ever since I was a child I wondered why they chose them as the foe. Me too. Fear is the glue that keeps them together. They must have something to demonize or their party will collapse like a bunch of broccoli (with a nod to Mel Brooks and Gene Wilder). ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/200 "2022-12-08T16:59:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s not like there hadn’t been plenty of deadly pogroms before the Holocaust. There had been a lot of pogroms in Russia, but I don’t think the Jews living in pre-Nazi Germany had been subjected to this in recent memory. It’s my understanding that until the Nazis took over, Germany was a pretty good place for Jews to live and they really saw themselves as Germans first, Jews second. A great many of them had volunteered to serve in World War I. Think about that - can you imagine fighting in a war as brutal as World War I, possibly earning great distinction and being awarded medals and/or officer’s commissions, and then having your country not only not care about this, but actually BLAME the Jews for losing the war? I don’t think they ever imagined it could happen there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071.md?page=11)