# Is this how Jews felt in pre-Nazi Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071 "2022-12-06T00:35:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/201 "2022-12-08T21:50:20Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > There had been a lot of pogroms in Russia, but I don’t think the Jews living in pre-Nazi Germany had been subjected to this in recent memory. Well, no - except for those Jews that had fled to Germany due to pogroms elsewhere. I think there was an awareness of the potential for what we now call genocide, but pre-Nazi Germany was viewed as highly civilized and rational, the way my parents and grandparents explained it was that Germany was not perceived as a place where something so barbaric could happen. Until it did. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/202 "2022-12-09T13:05:52Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Yes, I am afraid I see what you mean. Know what? The Jews were never actually very powerful. They were never that numerous either, much less so after being slaughtered by the millions. Ever since I was a child I wondered why they chose them as the foe. And they acted like you said, claiming they were powerful, and insidious, and corrupting… I spare you the details, I guess you know them as well as I do. > So thanks everyone for showing me this side of US society. I had a vage notion of the difficulties of/with the LGBTQ+ community, but I did not realize it was that serious. Sorry to read that. It’s also a way for some parts of the US to demonize other parts of the US. Do you know what they allow in those blue states?! If you visit one, your daughter might have to use a restroom that a MAN used, in a public place! ---
**Author:** ![ChasGrant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@ChasGrant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChasGrant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/203 "2022-12-10T15:05:22Z")
> pre-Nazi Germany was viewed as highly civilized and rational Well, for about 5 or 6 years after World War I perhaps, when it looked like Germany was managing to shake off its militaristic past. Whatever good opinion anyone had of Germany prior to World War One was destroyed by its treatment of Belgium in 1914. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/204 "2022-12-11T07:52:09Z")
“Is this how Jews felt in pre-Nazi Germany?” Perhaps. But not for the reason you think. White people have been _defined_ as racists. “I’m not Jewish but I’m a liberal living in a blood red area.” “ **Blood** red”??? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Mortimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Mortimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mortimus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/205 "2022-12-11T07:56:45Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > “ **Blood** red”??? Seriously? It’s that time of the month. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/206 "2022-12-11T13:00:35Z")
Wow, that was a sobering post (the five steps in the Rwandan genocide, and observations about where the US is now). Genocide isn’t inevitable, of course, but nor is it impossible. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/207 "2022-12-11T13:19:21Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > “I’m not Jewish but I’m a liberal living in a blood red area.” > > “ **Blood** red”??? Seriously? Funny how, until CNN happened to make that little map 20 years ago, the “but” wouldn’t have made sense in that sentence…of course Jews mostly live in Communist-leaning districts like Greenwich Village! And, I suspect that rowrbazzle wouldn’t have taken issue with “blood red” then, when the implication was reversed. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/208 "2022-12-11T13:23:01Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > of course Jews mostly live in Communist-leaning districts like Greenwich Village! Er, no. While there were a lot of Jewish communists, there were more Jews who weren’t Communists. And the ones who were (along with many who weren’t) got into a lot of trouble for being associated with the communists. Jews did not most live in communist leaning areas, but statements like that were used to discriminate against all Jews. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/209 "2022-12-11T13:29:13Z")
I took it that @JKellyMap’s statement was sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/210 "2022-12-11T13:37:23Z")
Yes, thanks! I was just pointing out that “red” used to imply “Communist,” and many American conservatives, right-wingers, and bigots accused Jews of being Commies, and of both of being hatefully un-American. Also, I perhaps shouldn’t have assumed what rowrbazzle would or wouldn’t think. Instead, I’ll just make the point that “blood red” has become such a fixed expression in English, I don’t think it implies violence for most people (even if preparations for – and possibly threats of – violence are indeed found in the OP’s neighborhood). To me, it just means “very red.” Like how “sky blue” doesn’t means anything more than “very blue.” ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/211 "2022-12-12T16:26:37Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Public shootings are horrific but mostly there seems to be no rhyme or reason. This is incorrect. According to the Center For Strategic and International Studies, “far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.” ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/212 "2022-12-12T16:38:05Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > The other question I ask myself is: why the LGBTQ+ community, or the Trans-people? They are not powerful, they are not culturally prevalent, they are not a proper enemy! That is exactly why they are targeted. What the Right always wants are groups who are identifiably Not Like Us, who have little to no power and, often, are few in number. Then they are inflated in fantasy with being a terrible insidious danger to Us. Then they are attacked. This is the concept of the scapegoat, originally the Escape Goat, once a literal goat or else a selected person who was ugly, poor, and defenseless, and upon them all the sins of the city were figuratively piled. Then they were stoned out of the city into the wilderness to die. Humans have been doing this for many thousands of years. Original word was in Hebrew, but it was a known ritual in ancient Athens and elsewhere. Now we are so degenerate we don’t even acknowledge that it is _our_ sins we are forcing them to atone for. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/213 "2022-12-12T21:10:09Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Now we are so degenerate we don’t even acknowledge that it is _our_ sins we are forcing them to atone for. I don’t deny that this is a _part_, possibly even a large part of what is going on. After all, the Republican party of the past 12+ years has fully become the party of Projection - but it’s also about securing an easy win. Picking someone to identify as an enemy is easy, picking on one that stands out or is obviously different is a bit harder, and then you have to pick one that because of low political power / low numbers / etc, is perceived to be easy to defeat. So you can sell that win to your base. You don’t want to pick an equal or near equal, and have to tell your base “It’s going to be a loooong, hard battle and many of you will die (or go broke) in this event, but in the end we’ll win!” No, it’s look at these people, look how _easily_ they can become a majority, let’s crush them while they’re small! In fact, this sort of attitude is especially seductive to what were previously considered Democratic leaning minorities. After all, they feel they (and almost certainly did) worked hard to get to where they are now (1st and 2nd generations especially) - they earned their place, they’re part of the majority now, but these NEW people coming in? They just want a handout / free benefits / to take our jobs. Let’s keep those OTHERS out. Or generations ago, minorities now lumped under ‘white’ such as the Irish, or Italians experienced the same damn thing, and then became part of the melting pot that fought to keep others out. And back probably to the first day Ogg was outcast for eating that last piece of mammoth his leader was eying, and was stoned as a filthy mammoth eater by the boar eating tribe next door when he came begging for a place. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/214 "2022-12-13T00:40:32Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > White people have been _defined_ as racists. Nonsense. What’s happened is just that more people are openly rejecting the polite fiction that white people can somehow be magically immune to the social and cultural effects of pervasive systemic racism, as long as they don’t consciously endorse racist beliefs. This polite fiction serves no purpose other than to spare white people the discomfort of recognizing the realities of systemic racism, so in the cause of fighting ignorance, I think discarding it is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/215 "2022-12-23T20:45:45Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Hell! What a name for a company! Do people not know what that means and where it comes from? Sorry for the ranty side note, it makes me angry It just means “over” or “above.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/216 "2022-12-24T02:46:59Z")
I’m guessing the guy posting from Berlin already has a pretty firm grasp on what the word means. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/217 "2022-12-24T03:10:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It just means “over” or “above.” Yeah, but that word attached to nouns (and the company’s name started out as “Ubercab”) has distinct echoes of nationalistic and fascistic themes like the Übermensch. Of course the company’s founders doubtless meant the name as a form of joking hyperbole about how great their new concept of a cab company was. But the point is that a lot of people who know a little more about the history of that rhetoric find the joke not particularly funny. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/218 "2022-12-24T03:38:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > course the company’s founders doubtless meant the name as a form of joking hyperbole about how great their new concept of a cab company was. But the point is that a lot of people who know a little more about the history of that rhetoric find the joke not particularly funny. You kill 20 million or so and people just lose their sense of humor. Mao Zedong’s standup career took a serious dive after the Great Leap Forward. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/219 "2022-12-24T08:01:16Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > You can scream about this perversion because your target audience is only going to hear your screaming; they’re not going to hear the calm alternate voice saying that pre-puberty surgeries don’t happen, and the pre-puberty hormone treatments and psychiatric care have lowered suicide rates significantly. My husband is convinced that Republicans actively want trans kids to kill themselves, so from that perspective the calm voice would just be reassuring bigots that they were doing the right thing. It’s certainly true that Republicans want trans kids to not exist, so he’s not that far off, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071/220 "2022-12-24T16:22:05Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > My husband is convinced that Republicans actively want trans kids to kill themselves, so from that perspective the calm voice would just be reassuring bigots that they were doing the right thing. I honestly don’t think that most Republicans actually care all that much about trans kids themselves; they’ve just become inculcated in the belief that acknowledging and accepting than transexualism is an existential threat to…whatever. Just as same sex marriage was going to somehow undermine traditional marriages and destroy the fabric of society, and of course when it didn’t conservative pundits had to find a new schtick to bed the drum with, so attacking trans people, and especially young children and their parents, is one that is super-easy and has almost no downside because unlike attacking adults who have the means to respond legally and rhetorically, attacking kids and their parents who are desperate to shield them from even more bullying and humiliation than the typical kid receives has almost no downside. They’re the perfect target for formulated bigotry because they’re different in appearance, reluctant to engage in protracted battle with authorities and “child protective services” which have broad authority to effectively persecute them even under existing laws, and too few in number that most people feel a personal conflict over the issue. It’s just more manufactured “Culture War” bullshit that gives people like DeSantis and Abbott the ability to use their executive authority to ‘legitimately’ persecute a minority and foster fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-how-jews-felt-in-pre-nazi-germany/976071.md?page=10)