Plus ça change , plus c’est la même chose
How did the Jews feel in pre-Nazi Germany? A lot less anxious than a lot of us feel now, because they didn’t have a previous historically recent “Holocaust” to compare their current situation with, the way we do. They couldn’t know how far and how fast the situation could deteriorate, or how much evil their friends and neighbors would be willing to tolerate and/or openly support.
…and literally today:
It’s not like there hadn’t been plenty of deadly pogroms before the Holocaust.
And you entirely miss the point.
Well:
I take the accusation of dog whistling that they did so with intent. Are you saying that people can dog whistle unintentionally? Does that even make sense to you?
Less an argument and more a discussion about proper preposition use, where they fully admit that the word is used in everyday speech. But it is not about the connotations of a German word to Germans, it is the connotations that the English loanword has in the United States to US citizens.
And what, in your opinion, would you call being lectured to by a South African about cultural and linguistic issues in the US?
I can’t speak for @Pardel-Lux, though I’m quite sure that he meant it the same way as I, that it’s first and foremost a dog-whistle for Germans. Maybe we both didn’t make that clear enough, but see here:
Many Germans are well-informed about our history and very sensible about symbols, speech and memes used by the nazis (at least I hope so), so that a company called “Uber” immediately is alarming for us. Maybe I used the word dog-whistle wrongly, I don’t know if a dog-whistle can be unintentional per definition, which it would be in the case of an American company that hasn’t researched the connotations of this word in Germany. A lack of such research though is inexcusable.
And no, it’s in no way a discussion about the use of prepositions, that’s a red herring that came solely from you. It isn’t about prepositions because in the context we discuss it, the word isn’t used as a preposition, but as a proper name of a company. As I mentioned before, one word can have multiple meanings, even contradictory meanings in different contexts.
If there was more of a point than “Uber = Super”, I clearly did.
I think you can, yes - I read that as P-L saying the word is a known Far Right dog whistle in Germany, and Uber should have known better, not that Uber “intentionally chose its name with the specific intent of appealing to nazis”[sic]
Pardel-Lux clearly was talking about the German connotations:
I’m not lecturing you on US language issues. By the time I got involved, it very much was about how the word is perceived in Germany.
That’s a good point about @Pardel-Lux’s intent I forgot to quote. When I first stepped into this discussion to confirm his point, I meant it in the same way.
There is some truth in that! There had been pogroms, but not efficiently organized by the State. So people may be more worried today because of the precedent. And, even worse, the nazis know that it has worked once and may try or are trying to repeat it. Or at least emulate it, changing Jews for Trans-people, as has been described (something which is not such a problem at all in my neck of the woods, i.e. the gay paradise Schöneberg) or whatever enemy they choose.
Leave me in peace with this crap, will you? I never talk in the name of US citizens, I hardly know one. I talk in my name. And that is not what I said. So, now: cut it off, OK? This subject is boring and you are becoming tedious. Go away and think about why this side remark is so relevant for you that you get all huffed and puffed up and want to misinterpret it until someone tells you you are right. Well: you aren’t.
Hey, feel you OP. I somewhat recently had a thread in the Pit about the feeling I needed to buy a handgun and learn how to use it, which I did.
After I did that, my 29-year-old daughter who is as peaceful and almost hippy-like as you can be with no anger or threat in her entire body came to me and wants to learn how to shoot it. This almost dropped me onto the floor as I never, in a million years, thought she would do this. I asked her why and she basically said she felt under threat and would like to have one around just in case. At least it makes buying Christmas presents easier…some classes.
After this last election, I feel a lessening of this feeling but it might be wishful thinking. However, I have taken to keeping the pistol in a gun safe at the gun club instead of at home. It just FEELS like a lessening of the threat. I hope this is true for me and for you.
Just to let you know, this thread has affected my brain.
I had a nightmare where the repubs took over and started executing dems by the arena-full. I barely escaped alive, and had to go on the run like SNLs “The Liberal”. Whenever anyone suspected me, I’d just call them a chimo and they’d back off. One smart guy (who looked like CSI NIck Stokes) was catching on, so I planted some evidence that made it look like he ate soy burgers, as protection.
In my anger I forgot to thank you for your detailed and sad answer. Where I live the LGTBQ+ community is not so demonised, but I am sure there will be other minorities in the sights of moral majorities almost everywhere, so here too. The question whether it is so bad already in the USA must thus be answered with: Yes, for some communities in some places.
The other question I ask myself is: why the LGBTQ+ community, or the Trans-people? They are not powerful, they are not culturally prevalent, they are not a proper enemy!
You partially answered your own question. They’re not powerful, so it’s textbook GOP punching down.
Also … they’re “weird.” Men pretending to be women! Women pretending to be men! People acting like they have no fixed gender at all! “Weird” has always been a target for bullies, so it’s only natural the right has fixated on LGBTQ, especially the T and Q.
I must be weird too, as I feel that if I had an enemy I would like my enemy to be strong and mighty, so my glory when defeating them would be so much greater, sung by bards and admired by beautiful damsels. Or perhaps I am just old fashioned and delusional.
Love your answer.
But see, that’s part of the right’s strategy, too. They act as if the trans community is strong and mighty – a horde of weirdos lurking in restrooms coast to coast, ready to groom your children into their sick culture. That’s why we have to pass laws and clamp down on them now, before they get too strong to resist.
I wish I were exaggerating, but I’m not.
Because they’re “different”.
The demonization of the LGBTQ+ community isn’t because they’re strong, it’s because it’s really really easy to fear monger to a certain portion of the voting population. If you know nothing about transitioning, it sounds horrible that “Doctors are operating on 8-year-olds!” (when in fact the only operations on 8-year-olds would be if genitalia was ambiguous). That makes it really easy to get the masses riled up over “child trans care”. Kinda like late term abortions. THE ONLY TIME they are actually performed is when there are significant medical problems for either the mother or the child, but because the prevalent procedure was called “partial birth”, it became really really easy to demonize.
Let’s face it - there really aren’t that many trans kids out there, and the ones that are out there often are closeted, so it’s reasonable to believe that 70% or more of voters don’t know any trans kids; none of this affects their day-to-day life. And, let’s face it, it’s only very recently that “trans” has become more common. When I was a kid (in the 70s), you only heard about a couple of people AT ALL. It was a sit-com joke in the 80s (I’m remembering an episode of Night Court). I truly think that it’s just the latest scare to rile up the uneducated base, just to get votes. You can scream about this perversion because your target audience is only going to hear your screaming; they’re not going to hear the calm alternate voice saying that pre-puberty surgeries don’t happen, and the pre-puberty hormone treatments and psychiatric care have lowered suicide rates significantly.
Yep. It’s the “existential threat” excuse. LGBTQs are an existential threat because it will turn your sons into trans girls who will then molest the other girls, immigrants will make it so your grandchildren will have to say “si, señor” to someone, atheists will make God damn us all to Hell, and Liberals want to allow all that and tax you to support it. We are fighting the End Time Battle, brother!!!
Yes, I am afraid I see what you mean. Know what? The Jews were never actually very powerful. They were never that numerous either, much less so after being slaughtered by the millions. Ever since I was a child I wondered why they chose them as the foe. And they acted like you said, claiming they were powerful, and insidious, and corrupting… I spare you the details, I guess you know them as well as I do.
So thanks everyone for showing me this side of US society. I had a vage notion of the difficulties of/with the LGBTQ+ community, but I did not realize it was that serious. Sorry to read that.
Me too.
Fear is the glue that keeps them together. They must have something to demonize or their party will collapse like a bunch of broccoli (with a nod to Mel Brooks and Gene Wilder).
There had been a lot of pogroms in Russia, but I don’t think the Jews living in pre-Nazi Germany had been subjected to this in recent memory. It’s my understanding that until the Nazis took over, Germany was a pretty good place for Jews to live and they really saw themselves as Germans first, Jews second. A great many of them had volunteered to serve in World War I. Think about that - can you imagine fighting in a war as brutal as World War I, possibly earning great distinction and being awarded medals and/or officer’s commissions, and then having your country not only not care about this, but actually BLAME the Jews for losing the war? I don’t think they ever imagined it could happen there.