# Is this illegal? \[Offering a female panhandler money to show her breasts\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 10, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080 "2014-09-10T16:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/1 "2014-09-10T16:31:54Z")
YANAL. MMMV depending on jurisdiction, etc. I have a friend that claims that whenever he sees a female panhandler, he says “I’ll pay $5 if you show me your tits.” For him it’s a joke since panhandlers are mostly con-artists and the women don’t need the cash that badly. He also claims that it’s not prostitution since it’s not sex and that asking someone to break the public nudity law is not illegal since if she wanted they could go somewhere private for the flash.\* I don’t know why but I just gotta believe it’s illegal. Maybe because “Boobs for $” is not being done in a licensed facility? There’s no such thing as verbal or visual sexual assault is there? I can stare down a woman’s top or tell her she has a phat ass and while creepy and rude, it’s still legal right? Offering money for nudity can’t be prostitution because for $XX you can get a lapdance at a strip club and that’s legal. So what say you Straight Dopers? Any way my friend is breaking the law? Allowances made for “In this city” or “In my state” because jurisdictions vary. \*In many cities, there are no laws against women showing their breasts in a non-tittilating fashion despite what PoPo Joe may claim so while being topfree is legal (IIRC) in Boulder, it is illegal in Denver. But top free means walking around with a shirt off like a guy would; I don’t know if flashing the ladies would be legal or not since it is “titillating”. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/2 "2014-09-10T16:35:24Z")
A panhandler, by making the first move, is opening a negotiation for a transaction involving something of value as a consideration. There is certainly nothing illegal about making a counter-offer, unless the counteroffer is the performance of something that is unlawful on its face. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/3 "2014-09-10T16:50:39Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > A panhandler, by making the first move, is opening a negotiation for a transaction involving something of value as a consideration. There is certainly nothing illegal about making a counter-offer, unless the counteroffer is the performance of something that is unlawful on its face. It should probably be noted that, at least in some locales, panhandling is illegal. Or at least giving money to panhandlers is. I’m not sure on the details, but I remember seeing a news report on in where cops stood on corner known for panhandling and handed out warnings to drivers giving out money. It seems like to move the discussion forward we either have to work with the assumption that panhandling is legal in the OP’s area or assume we’re not talking about panhandling but just asking if it’s legal to A)ask to see someone’s boobs for $5 and B)show your boobs for $5. Possibly two separate acts/offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/4 "2014-09-10T17:31:40Z")
In New Orleans, if it’s illegal, it certainly isn’t enforced. Hell, money isn’t even exchanged, just beads, like the island of Manhattan was bought with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/5 "2014-09-10T17:41:55Z")
It’s the solicitation of a sexually gratifying act, so probably soliciting for prostitution in most jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/6 "2014-09-10T17:45:17Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s the solicitation of a sexually gratifying act, so probably soliciting for prostitution in most jurisdictions. My first instinct is that it wouldn’t be any more “solicitation for prostitution” than what goes on at a strip club (“I’ll show you my tits if you’ll pay me $5”), but there may be some subtle distinctions involved. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/7 "2014-09-10T17:48:13Z")
Well, you are in Illinois. And I’d like to point out that 3 out of the last 4 governors of Illinois are retired and living at state expense at state run resorts. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/8 "2014-09-10T17:48:25Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s the solicitation of a sexually gratifying act, so probably soliciting for prostitution in most jurisdictions. I don’t that prostitution is defined quite that broadly. Can you cite that there is a jurisdiction where an act not involving physical contact between the parties qualifies as prostitution? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/9 "2014-09-10T18:06:52Z")
In California when you tell the undercover officer you are willing to pay to go on a date with him/her the first contact you will notice, if you are lucky, is the sound of snapping handcuffs. Not that I speak from experience. Again, I’m not an expert. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/10 "2014-09-10T18:40:26Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > In California when you tell the undercover officer you are willing to pay to go on a date with him/her the first contact you will notice, if you are lucky, is the sound of snapping handcuffs. Not that I speak from experience. Again, I’m not an expert. I’m sure that’s true if you’ve agreed to pay for a handjob, blowjob, or any other act that involves the officer making physical contact with your penis. What I doubt is that the flashing of mammaries qualifies, and what I requested was a cite otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/11 "2014-09-10T18:56:05Z")
In Oregon, boobs don’t count as **nudity** , so it’s no different than if you said “I’ll give you $5 if you show me your belly button” or “I’ll give you $5 if you show me the bottom of your left foot.” So it’s legal in Oregon. But even in a state where boobs count as nudity, I still don’t see how it’s illegal to pay someone $5. I mean, you can pay $5 to see a movie which has bare breasts in it and that’s not illegal. You can pay $5 to buy a magazine with bare breasts in it and that’s not illegal. You can pay $5 cover charge to walk into a strip club where the dancers show their bare breasts and that’s not illegal. The only part which would make it illegal is if the panhandler did it in such a way that other people on the street could also see her breasts. Then she’d be breaking the law. But if you duck behind a tree or she just lets you look down the top of her shirt and no one else can see, then I think it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/12 "2014-09-10T19:08:41Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m sure that’s true if you’ve agreed to pay for a handjob, blowjob, or any other act that involves the officer making physical contact with your penis. What I doubt is that the flashing of mammaries qualifies, and what I requested was a cite otherwise. You might find this enlightening: > **[Penal Code § 647(b) PC - Prostitution & Solicitation Laws](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/647b/)** > > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWMyGtcnDIhFt5PYFUArOlSwiQkHCFYNp Penal Code 647(b) PC makes it a crime either to engage in - or to solicit - prostitution. This means performing any sexual act in exchange for money or other compensation, or... Best wishes on your offering to see titties in public in exchange for cash. Free the Blouse Two! And all that. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/13 "2014-09-10T19:12:59Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You might find this enlightening: > > [Penal Code § 647(b) PC - Prostitution & Solicitation Laws](http://www.shouselaw.com/engaging_in_prostitution.html#1.2) > > Best wishes on your offering to see titties in public in exchange for cash. Free the Blouse Two! And all that. I haven’t expressed a desire to pay to see bosoms in public. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/14 "2014-09-10T19:21:32Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You might find this enlightening: > > [Penal Code § 647(b) PC - Prostitution & Solicitation Laws](http://www.shouselaw.com/engaging_in_prostitution.html#1.2) > > Best wishes on your offering to see titties in public in exchange for cash. Free the Blouse Two! And all that. What’s your point? If I’m interpreting that site correctly, looking (as opposed to touching) is _not_ an act of prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/15 "2014-09-10T19:33:34Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > What’s your point? If I’m interpreting that site correctly, looking (as opposed to touching) is _not_ an act of prostitution. Read again. Soliciting is the act of prostitution. Yes, you can try to argue to a jury that all you wanted to do was see God’s Homeless Bounty, but would twelve of your neighbors buy that? Do not waive the jury, no judge will buy such hokum. She can claim she wasn’t going to do anything else other than display Les Grand Tetons, but that isn’t going to be bought either. An arrest on the OP seems to me to be clean, and a conviction almost certain. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/16 "2014-09-10T19:44:39Z")
I heard there was some woman who dropped her towel to go ‘full Monty’ in her doorway for $800.00 ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/17 "2014-09-10T20:33:52Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > An arrest on the OP seems to me to be clean, and a conviction almost certain. That may be, but in light of the OP’s question I think it’s fair to point out that the actual act is not illegal as an act of solicitation of prostitution in most places, because it’s not actually a solicitation of sexual conduct as it’s defined anywhere I know of. It is probably a solicitation of some kind of minor act of indecency in some places, though. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/18 "2014-09-10T21:00:28Z")
The OP asks if it is illegal . In my jurisdiction it is an illegal criminal act and will absent jury nullification, result in conviction. There are undoubtedly places in the world where it is perfectly legal. In my jurisdiction it would also be illegal for a man to approach a strange woman in a public place and ask her to show him her boobies. That is some kind of sexual assault. Believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/19 "2014-09-10T21:03:35Z")
But if the link you provided was one to the law of your jurisdiction, it isn’t an illegal act of soliciting prostitution, because looking at a breast is not a lewd act, and it’s part of the premise that that’s all the guy wants to pay to do. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080/20 "2014-09-10T21:18:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The OP asks if it is illegal . In my jurisdiction it is an illegal criminal act and will absent jury nullification, result in conviction. There are undoubtedly places in the world where it is perfectly legal. > > In my jurisdiction it would also be illegal for a man to approach a strange woman in a public place and ask her to show him her boobies. That is some kind of sexual assault. Believe it or not. That may be, but your cite definitely does not demonstrate it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-illegal-offering-a-female-panhandler-money-to-show-her-breasts/698080.md?page=2)