# Is This Ironic? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324 "2009-03-22T05:21:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![guyblond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/1 "2009-03-22T05:21:18Z")
…well is it? [Pope Tells Clergy in Angola to Work Against Belief in Witchcraft](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/world/africa/22pope.html?ref=world) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/2 "2009-03-22T05:28:31Z")
> [@guyblond](#): > > …well is it? [Pope Tells Clergy in Angola to Work Against Belief in Witchcraft](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/world/africa/22pope.html?ref=world) He can not defeat the Charmed Ones 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/3 "2009-03-22T06:00:27Z")
It’s not particularly ironic that the pope is opposed to a belief in witchcraft. It might be ironic if a witch doctor was opposed to a belief in witchcraft, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/4 "2009-03-22T06:05:53Z")
No, the Pope is not an iron. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/5 "2009-03-22T07:17:41Z")
I suppose it is, if you frame it as the church discouraging superstition and then (at least at first glance) perpetuating myths about condoms making the AIDS problem worse. Or you could frame it as the pope, the leader of the world’s largest religious organization, discouraging supernatural belief. Then again, he’s likely just trying to get animists to convert to his brand of faith, not to eschew faith altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/6 "2009-03-22T07:25:05Z")
i’s not ironic at all; he’s not denying the existence of such things, he is stating that Christians have no reason to fear such things. He argues that by blending traditional beliefs (the article specifically mentioned animism) with Christianity, people subject themselves to unnecessary fear, and others to unjust violence. ---
**Author:** ![guyblond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/7 "2009-03-22T16:06:33Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > i’s not ironic at all; he’s not denying the existence of such things, he is stating that Christians have no reason to fear such things. He argues that by blending traditional beliefs (the article specifically mentioned animism) with Christianity, people subject themselves to unnecessary fear, and others to unjust violence. . Yep, one unnecessary fear is probably enough. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/8 "2009-03-22T17:01:49Z")
I found it funny: when I was studying at Georgetown, I remember seeing a group of clergy in full regalia, carrying scepters and God knows what, on their way to doing something like blessing the main gate (not sure exactly what they were doing). I was struck by an overwhelming embarrassment for them, and a feeling that they were like shamans, only with more expensive clothes. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/9 "2009-03-22T17:05:50Z")
They are exactly like shamans with more expensive clothes. It would be just as easy (and make as much sense) for witch doctors to warn against Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/10 "2009-03-22T17:21:28Z")
Only if you’re Alanis Morissette. But considering the following: > [@](#): > > “Who can go to them to proclaim that Christ has triumphed over death and all those occult powers?” he asked guests at an invitation-only Mass in the blue-domed splendor of St. Paul’s Church in the capital. > > Morning light flooded through stained-glass windows — a depiction of Christ on the cross in the center — as the 81-year-old, German-born pontiff spoke of Angolans so fearful of evil spirits that they wrongly condemn innocent children and the elderly for being possessed by demons. I don’t think telling people they have no reason to fear to witchcraft-(when you consider they fear it so much they’re torturing small children and the elderly) is “ironic”: > [@](#): > > The latest human rights report for Angola by the United States State Department says that children accused of witchcraft suffer abuses such as “the denial of food and water, or ritualistic cuttings and the placing of various caustic oils or peppers on their eyes or ears.” > > The report mentions a 2007 case where a teacher was sentenced to eight years of hard labor after kidnapping and beating two children he suspected of sorcery; one of them died of injuries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/11 "2009-03-22T17:40:15Z")
> [@guyblond](#): > > …well is it? [Pope Tells Clergy in Angola to Work Against Belief in Witchcraft](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/world/africa/22pope.html?ref=world) It’s about as ironic as rain on your wedding day. edit: dang you **Guinastasia** ---
**Author:** ![guyblond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/12 "2009-03-22T19:25:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Only if you’re Alanis Morissette. > I don’t think telling people they have no reason to fear to witchcraft-(when you consider they fear it so much they’re torturing small children and the elderly) is “ironic”: But is not the history of the Catholic Church fraught with association with similar atrocities? Paving the road with good intentions doesn’t in my view solve the basic problems created by the similar dogmas. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/13 "2009-03-22T19:39:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > They are exactly like shamans with more expensive clothes. It would be just as easy (and make as much sense) for witch doctors to warn against Catholicism. I can already see the articles/interviews/etc… being written in The Onion. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/14 "2009-03-22T19:45:25Z")
> [@guyblond](#): > > But is not the history of the Catholic Church fraught with association with similar atrocities? > > Paving the road with good intentions doesn’t in my view solve the basic problems created by the similar dogmas. I think at some point the church was practically paving roads with good intestines, with all the drawing and quartering of heretics. Or am I confusing my tortures and torturers? ---
**Author:** ![guyblond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@guyblond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guyblond)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/15 "2009-03-22T19:51:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think at some point the church was practically paving roads with good intestines, with all the drawing and quartering of heretics. Or am I confusing my tortures and torturers? My gut feeling says… ummm…no. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/16 "2009-03-22T19:59:10Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > It’s about as ironic as rain on your wedding day. > > edit: dang you **Guinastasia** I recall an essay on the song’s theme, focusing on just what would really count as irony. You could easily tweak the “rain on your wedding day” bit so that it would qualify. All that would be required is for the groom to be a meteorologist and to have helped set the wedding date based on his calculated prediction, with the agreement and full knowledge of the bride of his reason for recommendation. 😃 This works especially well if the wedding is set for a date no more than two weeks ahead. The closer the date set, the better, obviously. (Now, I realize that when people think of a wedding, they usually think of a heavily catered event that has to be planned and engineered over several months to a couple of years. But there are still “quickie” marriages, so the scenario is not really ridiculous.) * * * The above thought, with my additions, may seem a bit sexist. Someone else had come up with it, though. I say, the bride could have been a meteorologist instead. Or they could both be same, and let’s say that they worked together on it. Now, _ **that** _ would _ **really** _ be _ironic!_ … -don’t you think? - “Jack” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/17 "2009-03-22T20:01:16Z")
The HEADLINE is certainly ironic. It’s a famed advocate of the supernatural advocating against belief in the supernatural. The underlying story is more complex and so isn’t ironic, but the headline, as presented, is. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/18 "2009-03-22T20:10:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The HEADLINE is certainly ironic. It’s a famed advocate of the supernatural advocating against belief in the supernatural. He’s not advocating against belief in the supernatural. He’s advocating against belief in one specific supernatural thing that he and his organization have opposed for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/19 "2009-03-22T20:29:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He’s not advocating against belief in the supernatural. He’s advocating against belief in one specific supernatural thing that he and his organization have opposed for a long time. Read again for comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324/20 "2009-03-22T20:40:53Z")
> [@guyblond](#): > > But is not the history of the Catholic Church fraught with association with similar atrocities? > > Paving the road with good intentions doesn’t in my view solve the basic problems created by the similar dogmas. And so, they are not allowed to ever, EVER speak out against attrocities in THIS day and age? Ever? :rolleyes: That’s like saying that the US was built on slave labor, so we can’t protest slavery anywhere else in the world. God, you’re thick. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-ironic/490324.md?page=2)