# Is this joke racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125 "2012-11-26T04:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/21 "2012-11-26T17:19:11Z")
It’s one of those jokes that are not intrinsically racist but in some contexts will have extremely racist overtones. So when Arsenio tells it, it’s funny because he’s riffing on an old stereotype that is no longer true if it ever was. When [racist white guy] tells it, even with the exact same wording, it’s much nastier because the intent behind it is blatantly different. Here’s another one to discuss: Q: Why don’t black people go on cruises? A: They’re not falling for **that** one again. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/22 "2012-11-26T17:28:18Z")
> [@taskmgr.exe](#): > > What I have realized in English forums, rarely in this forum, is that making insulting comments on Middle Eastern people is okay but you cannot make this on Jews and Blacks. Is this fair? Do you mean “is this a fair summary”? If so, of course it isn’t. It’ not okay to make insulting comments on Middle Eastern people, whether or not they’re Jewish or black. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/23 "2012-11-26T17:28:44Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > It’s an old Arsenio Hall joke. He is Black. > It’s racial, but not racist. > It’s funny. Lighten up. I agree. And I agree with our “Official Black Person” that it’s just not very funny. Not even a little bit. It’s actually pretty stupid. But we do need to lighten up. No one said they need to pack watermelon and fried chicken for the black astronauts. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/24 "2012-11-26T17:49:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Here’s another one to discuss: > > Q: Why don’t black people go on cruises? > A: They’re not falling for **that** one again. Okay, now that’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/25 "2012-11-26T17:52:16Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Cover a few points first : > > 1. “Black” is not a race. Though they can’t seem to make up their minds on what black actually is. Negro should be the formal title, much like Caucasian is for ‘white’. 😕 If black people should be Negroes, then whiteys should be Blancos, shouldn’t we? Or Blancoes, I guess… ---
**Author:** ![thatguyjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@thatguyjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatguyjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/26 "2012-11-26T17:57:13Z")
It’s racist in any context because it aligns a certain dialect with a specific race. Race and dialect are not related. The joke implies all black people speak a certain way. This is no different than implying all black people are thieves, stupid, or lazy. ---
**Author:** ![thatguyjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@thatguyjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatguyjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/27 "2012-11-26T18:00:47Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Here’s another one to discuss: > > Q: Why don’t black people go on cruises? > A: They’re not falling for **that** one again. Really? This too requires discussion? Implying that a native African who was kidnapped to be sold into slavery was too stupid to realize that they weren’t voluntarily going on a pleasure cruise… how is that in any way NOT racist? ---
**Author:** ![taskmgr.exe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@taskmgr.exe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taskmgr.exe)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/28 "2012-11-26T18:08:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Do you mean “is this a fair summary”? If so, of course it isn’t. It’ not okay to make insulting comments on Middle Eastern people, whether or not they’re Jewish or black. I mean, people make insulting comments on Middle Eastern people, on some forums. No one cares. But, when someone makes insulting comments on Jews or Blacks, everyone counter-attacks him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/29 "2012-11-26T18:09:14Z")
> [@thatguyjeff](#): > > Implying that a native African who was kidnapped to be sold into slavery was too stupid to realize that they weren’t voluntarily going on a pleasure cruise… how is that in any way NOT racist? It depends entirely on whether you think the joke is about how dumb black people are or about the sheer surreality of the idea of slave ships being touted as cruise liners. I prefer the second interpretation, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/30 "2012-11-26T18:10:27Z")
Anyone or anything that makes reference to skin color in any manner other than as a physical description of someone is by definition racist. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/31 "2012-11-26T18:23:25Z")
Whether something is racist is clearly an opinion. Flatly stating that something is or is not racist as if there is a way to objectively decide it very silly. You know, like something a dirty Jew might do. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/32 "2012-11-26T18:47:54Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > … > > As an Official Black Person, I’d like to remind everyone that it’s acceptable to say “Black” or “African American” (though the latter requires you to know something about the people you’re referring to - i.e. their citizenry). No scary Black people will beat you up if you say either one, though you might be corrected, and if so, so what? I moved to the Caribbean and was repeatedly corrected on this point. Didn’t get beaten up, but my friends and colleagues from Barbados, Cayman , Jamaica, St Lucia, and Nigeria would look at me very oddly when I used the term African American. My Nigerian fiend, a small meek woman, would get almost livid declaring “I am the only African in this office!” The Caribbean colleagues were more exasperated by it saying that I needed to understand that they were neither African not American so would I kindly stop using that term. Didn’t help that our jobs (9-1-1 operators) regularly require asking for physical descriptions of persons including skin colour. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/33 "2012-11-26T18:54:49Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I moved to the Caribbean and was repeatedly corrected on this point. Didn’t get beaten up, but my friends and colleagues from Barbados, Cayman , Jamaica, St Lucia, and Nigeria would look at me very oddly when I used the term African American. > > My Nigerian fiend, a small meek woman, would get almost livid declaring “I am the only African in this office!” The Caribbean colleagues were more exasperated by it saying that I needed to understand that they were neither African not American so would I kindly stop using that term. Didn’t help that our jobs (9-1-1 operators) regularly require asking for physical descriptions of persons including skin colour. Meanwhile, something like 90%\* of blacks in the USA don’t care either way. Hell, I’ll even accept Negro or colored if the speaker is old and not being disrespectful. \*not a real statistic ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/34 "2012-11-26T18:57:29Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Here’s [that joke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX_687HwX9c) personified. Yeah, but it was a different time then, you understand. 1957, '58. ---
**Author:** ![taskmgr.exe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@taskmgr.exe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taskmgr.exe)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/35 "2012-11-26T19:00:47Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > My Nigerian **fiend** , a small meek woman, would get almost livid declaring “I am the only African in this office!” Fiend 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/36 "2012-11-26T19:27:32Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > First, the joke’s not very funny. I can see it getting groans even in an all Black nightclub delivered by a Black comedian. > > Intent matters. It’s not so much racist as it is in bad taste. So I can see Arsenio Hall getting away with this one, but if Ann Coulter were to drop it in her repertoire, I think we might ascertain where it’s going. Bottom line, it deals with taboo issues in American society and the penchant is to be uncomfortable with it. If Richard Pryor or Chris Rock were delivering the joke, it seems to be more likely couched in a larger point about race relations, so it might be less problematic. I’m not black, but this sums up my opinion. I found the second joke funnier. > [@Gyrate](#): > > It depends entirely on whether you think the joke is about how dumb black people are or about the sheer surreality of the idea of slave ships being touted as cruise liners. I prefer the second interpretation, personally. Me too. Or, poking fun at white folks for being stupid enough to think that the first option was a possibility. I’m a sucker for humor that pokes fun at stereotypes, but by poking at the believers of the stereotypes rather than the stereotypes themselves. > [@Clothahump](#): > > Anyone or anything that makes reference to skin color in any manner other than as a physical description of someone is by definition racist. That might be a bit too broad a brush, but it sure is a good starting point or rule of thumb. I confess I can’t think of an example showing that it’s too broad. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/37 "2012-11-26T19:41:54Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > In all races and all nations you will find modified words like “Massa.” Any joke then with similar subject content would be either racist or xenophobic. > > Equality at it’s finest - it’s either all racist or none at all. I bet you’re a big hit at parties. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/38 "2012-11-26T19:43:03Z")
You’re making the assumption that racist means bad, which is something you can’t do with such a broad definition as the one proposed by **Clothahump**. Sure, it makes the definition objective, but then it loses its ability to indicate a moral value. Because, like it or not, we do not view all technical racism as equally bad. For example, the first joke is horribly unfunny, so it is perceived as more “racist” in the common sense than the second joke. Both are technically racist, but the humor of the second one overshadows that. Except amongst those of you who don’t find it funny, who are complaining about it being racist. If you’re going to make a joke that is in bad taste, it must be funny, or otherwise people will be offended. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/39 "2012-11-26T19:49:38Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I bet you’re a big hit at parties. The name makes me assume the poster is (Asian) Indian (culturally if not geographically), and thus would be largely ignorant of the actual complexities of race relations in the U.S., wanting an overly simple answer in what is or is not offensive. I don’t think it’s the usual indicator of racism that it can be in the U.S., where people are just using the illogic of the situation (caused by the deferring definitions mentioned in my previous post) to come up with an excuse to be able to make racist comments without repudiation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125/40 "2012-11-26T19:54:05Z")
> [@taskmgr.exe](#): > > I mean, people make insulting comments on Middle Eastern people, on some forums. No one cares. > > But, when someone makes insulting comments on Jews or Blacks, everyone counter-attacks him. Oh, sure, if you mean there are forums that are obnoxiously anti-Middle-Eastern, of course there are. And I’m sure you could find another forum where antisemitic comments were tolerated but not anti-middle-Eastern comments (I suppose, although given Israel’s geographic location that’d be pretty weird), and other forums where anti-black comments and anti-middle-Eastern comments were tolerated but not antisemitic ones. All it means is you’ve found a particular variety of obnoxious forum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-joke-racist/642125.md?page=3)