# Is this kid's book illustration subtly (or not-so-subtly) racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442 "2022-10-18T15:56:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/1 "2022-10-18T15:56:16Z")
I’ve pondered getting tattooed with the image seen on the righthand page [here](https://youtu.be/JFVCzpAUJyM) at 2:37, but am having second thoughts as it occurs to me that the duck might represent a (dated) racist trope, via his garb, etc. He first shows up at 0:46, where it may be more obvious, if it is the case. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/2 "2022-10-18T17:09:55Z")
I’m of the (cautious) school of thought that if you have to ask, it probably is and it’s better to stay away from using it. There might also be copyright issues but IANAL and someone else will have to chime in on those. Not that you asked but here is my aesthetic opinion as well. Those images don’t have any aesthetic appeal to me all and I think might be unappealing to most viewers. I am a well-read person of significant years and the Ducky Lucky visual association is lost on me. I wouldn’t recognize out of context and it would look like a badly drawn cartoon dick to me if I saw it, with no further meaning. I don’t think it will mean what you are hoping it will convey. If you are looking for a “the sky is falling” vibe, perhaps look elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Saffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saffer/32/6440_2.png) [@Saffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saffer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/3 "2022-10-18T17:45:12Z")
That image does not line up in any way with any of the racist tropes I am aware of. I look forward to hearing an explanation from anyone for whom it does. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/4 "2022-10-18T17:58:11Z")
I don’t know about Ducky Lucky, but that turkey wearing the pilgrim hat is bound to be offensive to multiple groups. The stereotype of birds being stupid is also problematic. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/5 "2022-10-18T18:00:36Z")
The duck is wearing stereotypical Country Bumpkin clothes. Probably classist, but not racist. ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/6 "2022-10-18T18:02:41Z")
It’s really for me, not any viewers. For me it would act as a _memento mori_. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/7 "2022-10-18T18:04:22Z")
> [@Saffer](#): > > That image does not line up in any way with any of the racist tropes I am aware of. I look forward to hearing an explanation from anyone for whom it does. Me too. I see animals wearing clothes that look like sort of old fashioned rural/pastoral, but I don’t recognise any of them as anything specific other than old fashioned country clothing ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/8 "2022-10-18T18:08:05Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > I wouldn’t recognize out of context and it would look like a **badly drawn cartoon dick** to me if I saw it, - That wouldn’t be in any children’s book. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/9 "2022-10-18T18:15:25Z")
Y’all don’t recognize minstrels when you see them? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/10 "2022-10-18T18:25:44Z")
It’s a dark colored figure in a straw hat, capering. While I don’t think the book’s author intended it that way, it does look dubious to me. By itself and out of context, it doesn’t make me think either of Ducky Lucky or of the falling-sky trope; though it doesn’t make me think of cartoon dicks, either. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/11 "2022-10-18T18:26:39Z")
> [@Saffer](#): > > That image does not line up in any way with any of the racist tropes I am aware of. I look forward to hearing an explanation from anyone for whom it does. I concur. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/12 "2022-10-18T19:17:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Saffer](#): > > > > That image does not line up in any way with any of the racist tropes I am aware of. I look forward to hearing an explanation from anyone for whom it does. > > I concur. Been answered, I think; at least twice. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Y’all don’t recognize minstrels when you see them? > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s a dark colored figure in a straw hat, capering. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/13 "2022-10-18T19:20:16Z")
> [@whc.03grady](#): > > here I don’t see anything with the duck. I don’t get it. So it’s been answered twice? So country bumpkin? That’s racist? (Though I don’t see any of that as particularly “country bumpkin”, anyway.) I actually thought the OP was referring to the fox depiction in a minstrel-ish manner. That I could kinda sorta see if I squint. The duck I don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/14 "2022-10-18T19:27:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I actually thought the OP was referring to the fox depiction in a minstrel-ish manner. That I could kinda sorta see if I squint. The duck I don’t get. The duck that mimics the fox at 0:46? You don’t see that? I don’t think the artist had bad intent but I know a racist trope when I see one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/15 "2022-10-18T19:31:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t see anything with the duck. I don’t get it. So it’s been answered twice? So country bumpkin? That’s racist? (Though I don’t see any of that as particularly “country bumpkin”, anyway.) The “country bumpkin” outfit isn’t racist itself, but prior to circa WWII, the default stereotype of a Black person was poor and rural, and thus, usually dressed like a “country bumpkin.” The outfit itself wouldn’t be problematic if it were on a character that was clearly coded as white, but in this case, it’s on a duck with black feathers. Add the fact that it’s dancing, and it’s verging pretty deep in minstrel territory. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/16 "2022-10-18T19:39:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The outfit itself wouldn’t be problematic if it were on a character that was clearly coded as white, but in this case, it’s on a duck with black feathers. The duck has what I believe is standard mallard coloring: green head, whitish body, and dark wings. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/17 "2022-10-18T19:40:56Z")
I wasn’t looking at 0:46, but 2:37. OK, at 0:46 I can see it. I didn’t get that connection at all at 2:37, where I thought maybe the fox depiction could be seen as racist. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/18 "2022-10-18T19:41:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That wouldn’t be in any children’s book. 😂🤣😂🤣😂 that’ll teach me to not skip careful proofreading! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/19 "2022-10-18T19:44:20Z")
Even there, look up mistral pictures and you’ll see one guy playing a stringed instrument while a second one dances . . . I’d quote Bill the Butcher from _Gangs of New York_ here, but that would be too much. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/20 "2022-10-18T19:54:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The duck has what I believe is standard mallard coloring: green head, whitish body, and dark wings. Looking closer, I see you’re correct. The green on the head is pretty dark, and didn’t register as a different hue than the wings at first. Also, if the artist had intended a bird to use as a racist caricature, he’d probably have gone with the more traditional crow. So I’d say that this probably isn’t intended to be racist. Still, it’s close enough that I’d think twice about getting it permanently inked on my body. It may be a mistaken interpretation, but how much time do you want to spend explaining, “No, see, it’s a mallard,” with your shirt off? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442.md?page=2)