# Is this kid's book illustration subtly (or not-so-subtly) racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442 "2022-10-18T15:56:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/21 "2022-10-18T20:02:23Z")
The only thing I see is that the Fox is a serial killer. I’d avoid the story on that basis. Usually the woodsman shows up and cuts open the Fox and everybody pops out again, so you get a (somewhat) happy ending. OTOH I never had a problem with [Squirrel Nutkin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ia_q2hxyAM), so it’s probably a matter of taste? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/22 "2022-10-18T20:05:14Z")
Why a duck? 🥸 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/23 "2022-10-18T20:24:55Z")
I don’t see minstrelsy in Ducky Lucky, myself. I hear duelling banjos when I see him, not a cakewalk. IYKWIM. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/24 "2022-10-18T20:33:27Z")
Would there be any difference between a non-racist depiction of a wandering American minstrel and a racist depiction of a minstrel? Or is it impossible to non-racist-ially depict a wandering musician in a rustic American context? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/25 "2022-10-18T20:33:44Z")
Yeah, it’s on that line between overtly racist and using somewhat racist imagery in in an innocent way. Either way, prolly not tattoo fodder . . . plus ducks are just too rapey! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/26 "2022-10-18T21:03:05Z")
[Moderating] As this is a matter of opinion, not fact, let’s move it to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/27 "2022-10-18T21:20:41Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > The duck is wearing stereotypical Country Bumpkin clothes. I agree; the hat with the straw stuck in it, the old-fashioned farm laborer smock, the neck bandanna, the switch in the hand, all come across to me as “white yokel” rather than “happy d\*rky”. Oh wait, that’s not a smock, that’s an open-front shirt/jacket thingy. Still yokelish, IMHO. It could look racist on a figure that was clearly intended to be a Black person, though. If you’re concerned that the duck’s coloration as drawn might give that impression, why not just ask the tattoo artist to make the coloration more clearly mallard-like? Brighter green head, brighter yellow bill, black and white rings around the neck, lighter grayish “hands” to give the overall impression of the wing color, clearer contrast between brown breast and gray belly, brighter orange feet. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/28 "2022-10-18T21:43:42Z")
When I see it, it comes across looking more like Huckleberry Finn than a minstrel. Also, in case there was some kind of traditional imagery I was unfamiliar with, I tried Googling “blackface minstrel” and looked at the picture results. None of them came close to the duck picture. Still, if it were me, just the idea that someone _might_ interpret it as racist would keep me from having a permanent tattoo added to my skin. Just the fact that you are concerned enough to ask should tell you that it’s not a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/29 "2022-10-18T21:59:11Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > I’m of the (cautious) school of thought that if you have to ask, it probably is and it’s better to stay away from using it… I’m of the school of thought that if you have several folks bouncing the idea back and forth with no real consensus, maybe we are looking too hard for it. mmm ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/30 "2022-10-18T22:25:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ask the tattoo artist to make the coloration more clearly mallard-like? Brighter green head, brighter yellow bill, black and white rings around the neck, lighter grayish “hands” to give the overall impression of the wing color, clearer contrast between brown breast and gray belly, brighter orange feet. Looks to me, at least, like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/31 "2022-10-19T01:43:51Z")
Because Rome needed the water. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/32 "2022-10-19T02:14:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The “country bumpkin” outfit isn’t racist itself, but prior to circa WWII, the default stereotype of a Black person was poor and rural, and thus, usually dressed like a “country bumpkin.” The outfit itself wouldn’t be problematic if it were on a character that was clearly coded as white, but in this case, it’s on a duck with black feathers. Add the fact that it’s dancing, and it’s verging pretty deep in minstrel territory. To me, the other minstrel-like element of the duck is the light-colored eyes and beak that look like the white eyes and lips of minstrels in blackface. It’s most noticeable at 0:46. Maybe Richard Scarry didn’t intend this, but it looks uncomfortably close. I’m spoilering the link, below, to an image of minstrels that some will find offensive. A number of them are wearing “country bumpkin” hats and coats like the duck’s. [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.12lxo6DimfDe\_1Eszl\_J7gHaFj&w=207&h=160&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&o=6&dpr=1.5&pid=3.1&rm=2](https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.12lxo6DimfDe_1Eszl_J7gHaFj&w=207&h=160&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&o=6&dpr=1.5&pid=3.1&rm=2) It’s at the end of this page, which also has several pictures of minstrels with banjos like the duck’s: [What is the history of blackface in Quebec? | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/blackface-montreal-1.3495840) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/33 "2022-10-19T02:57:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I don’t know about Ducky Lucky, but that turkey wearing the pilgrim hat is bound to be offensive to multiple groups. > > The stereotype of birds being stupid is also problematic. Is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/34 "2022-10-19T06:08:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Would there be any difference between a non-racist depiction of a wandering American minstrel and a racist depiction of a minstrel? Well, maybe don’t make them a monkey or a crow… But generally, there are associated imagery that goes with minstrelsy - and that’s not even going into the outright blackface aspects - that _aren’t_ “farm hick”. Actual period minstrel depictions are either “Jim Crow”-style things like patched, ragged clothes & a broken or inappropriate hat (like a top hat on a raggamuffin character) or “Jazz Singer”-style: evening “performer” wear but either scruffy or extra-colourful, that kind of thing. The whole outfit should signal “itinerant entertainer”, not just “rural person playing a musical instrument”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/35 "2022-10-19T06:15:54Z")
_None_ of the minstrels in that picture are wearing an outfit and especially not a hat like the duck’s. And the duck is _not_ playing a banjo. He’s clearly playing a one-string box bass. Somewhere, a jug band is short one bassist. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/36 "2022-10-19T06:32:46Z")
Is there any chance we can see this picture without having to look at a video? Could somebody post a still picture? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/37 "2022-10-19T06:41:11Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Could somebody post a still picture? [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/b7/f6/51b7f61e3fb2cb249cea086b3b852324.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/b7/f6/51b7f61e3fb2cb249cea086b3b852324.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/38 "2022-10-19T06:45:36Z")
Thank you, @Atamasama . Now, could someone tell me how this is racist? It’s a fox and a duck dancing. Both look happy, and they are having fun to the music. I’m not sure I’m seeing the racist angle here–can anybody help? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/39 "2022-10-19T13:04:19Z")
I don’t think you’d find any bigotry in Richard Scarry’s books. Other than Goldbug representing the international Jewish conspiracy, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442/40 "2022-10-19T13:29:25Z")
I worry more about his race-traitor butcher pigs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-kids-book-illustration-subtly-or-not-so-subtly-racist/973442.md?page=3)