# Is this legal? Planned K-9 search of a K-12 school in Michigan. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036 "2015-11-30T17:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/21 "2015-11-30T19:32:35Z")
_shrugs_ My public high school was doing this–unannounced–in the '90s. We’d be in class having a normal day, and an announcement would come on. Put your stuff in the hall, then go back in your classroom. They locked us in while they were doing it. They locked us in the cafeteria at lunch, too. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/22 "2015-11-30T19:37:45Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So, > > (a) Did the notice from the administration say anything about whether you are, or are not, allowed to tell your students about this _today_ (Monday?) > > (b) In any case, is there still time for you to do that? Or are your students done and gone for the day by the time you are reading this? > > ETA: I also question the lock-down rule, that nobody will be allowed to leave their classrooms. > > Yes, horribly offensive. Possibly a cause for some kind of demonstrations or other protest actions (by any combination of students/faculty/parents), even if only after-the-fact? Here is the exact email I received: > [@](#): > > Subject: K9 Search Tomorrow-Please do NOT share with students > > Good Morning: > > Tomorrow at 1:00pm the K9 dogs will be here to conduct a search of the parking lot along with student belongings. You will hear an announcement at 12:50 stating that we will be conducting a search and asking that all students place backpacks,coats, and any other belongings in the main hallways. Please be sure to set them up against the wall. Everyone will then return to their rooms and remain there until a follow-up announcement is made. Students should not be allowed to leave the classrooms for any reason. > > Let me know if you have any questions. > > Thank you for all of you cooperation! Students are now gone, but even if they were here I would not be able to tell them anything. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/23 "2015-11-30T19:41:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Meh. There’s always been a Fourth Amendment line at the door to your home. School hallways and lockers are much more clearly like your luggage at the bus depot or your car during a traffic stop. But the dog in _Jardine_ never entered the home; it smelled what was coming from inside it, just as it would have smelled what was coming from luggage or a car trunk or whatever. I’m not saying it is some fundamental sea change in dog sniff jurisprudence, just that the boundaries are less clear now than before. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/24 "2015-11-30T19:45:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The school sent an email to its _staff_, which \*\*Dragwyr \*\*is one of. Color me bad at reading comprehension, then. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/25 "2015-11-30T19:48:44Z")
It’s legal. I myself do not afford the same civil liberties to minors as I do to adults, so it’s not that offensive to me. Also, is this just a K9 sniff or a physical search, going through pockets and bags and such? If it’s the later, then I have more to say on it. > [@Senegoid](#): > > In California, every public school that I know of has signs posted at all the parking lots saying that any vehicle on the property may be searched at any time for any reason, and any person, by the act of putting his vehicle on said property, thereby consents to the same. What kind of search? K9 sniff or a physical search entering the vehicle itself? If the later I either call BS:dubious: or want to know why this hasn’t been challenged. Show me anywhere else where the general public has access to a lot that would give private or public owners authority to open up ones vehicle and search. In fact, not even a vehicle that is trespass parking provides RS or PC for a search. I’ve never seen such signage at court houses and government buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/26 "2015-11-30T19:51:17Z")
Courthouses and government buildings are not schools. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/27 "2015-11-30T20:02:16Z")
> [@Dragwyr](#): > > Students are now gone, but even if they were here I would not be able to tell them anything. Why not? The email doesn’t say anything about that. I’d forward it to every student I had email address for, and let them spread the word and organize a protest. Then I’d probably start a search for a job at a school that didn’t do this kind of crap. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/28 "2015-11-30T20:25:39Z")
One wonders if school administrators have ever heard the term “social media”? > [@Dragwyr](#): > > I have to wonder about the reliability of dog searches. I’ve seen dogs that were trained to indicate they found contraband simply by cues from the police officer and not because they actually found something. That way the officer can claim the dog found something which would give the officer probable cause. Yeah, even supposedly well-trained dogs can go all “Clever Hans” by cues from the officer/handler. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/29 "2015-11-30T20:27:53Z")
I don’t have a problem with this Imagine if it saves one student’s life who would have died from a marijuana overdose if the dog hadn’t found it in his coat. Wouldn’t you say it’s worth it ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/30 "2015-11-30T20:36:30Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I don’t have a problem with this > > Imagine if it saves one student’s life who would have died from a marijuana overdose if the dog hadn’t found it in his coat. Wouldn’t you say it’s worth it Its just as likely they are looking for weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/31 "2015-11-30T20:36:59Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I don’t have a problem with this > > Imagine if it saves one student’s life who would have died from a marijuana overdose if the dog hadn’t found it in his coat. Wouldn’t you say it’s worth it Not sure if you’re joking. [Marijuana overdose](http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/cannabis-pdq#link/_88_toc)? > [@](#): > > Because cannabinoid receptors, unlike opioid receptors, are not located in the brainstem areas controlling respiration, lethal overdoses from Cannabis and cannabinoids do not occur. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/32 "2015-11-30T20:42:44Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Not sure if you’re joking. [Marijuana overdose](http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/hp/cannabis-pdq#link/_88_toc)? But in the Bible, people get executed by being stoned. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/33 "2015-11-30T20:46:20Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Imagine if it saves one student’s life who would have died from a marijuana overdose if the dog hadn’t found it in his coat. Wouldn’t you say it’s worth it 😃 We’ve done this dance before. You can form your own opinion on what you personally think SHOULD be right regarding stops and searches, but over the past 2-3 decades, with IMO relatively minor exceptions, the trend has been to allow authorities greater latitude to conduct what many of us would consider searches. If you want privacy, do it in your home with the shades drawn, and without using electronic media/appliances. Certainly not in a school or in your car. Warrantless/causeless searches of schools are not at all new. I’m a little surprised foule would be surprised by this. The current state of the law IMO sucks, but it is settled. Remember - it’s for the children! :rolleyes: If you want to fight this, it can be done at the school district level, and through parental/media objection. Tho these searches are permissible, they are certainly not required. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/34 "2015-11-30T20:46:23Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Why not? The email doesn’t say anything about that. I’d forward it to every student I had email address for, and let them spread the word and organize a protest. Read it again. It’s right there in the Subject line: “Do NOT publish this e-mail on the front page of the New York Times!” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/35 "2015-11-30T20:46:41Z")
Having been in education a long time, my instinct is that that email is to make sure STAFF don’t show up with anything, which would be awkward and more complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/36 "2015-11-30T20:53:07Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Read it again. It’s right there in the Subject line: “Do NOT publish this e-mail on the front page of the New York Times!” Actually, it says “please” indicating it is a request. Is it too late to spread bacon bits all over campus? ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/37 "2015-11-30T20:55:12Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I don’t have a problem with this > > Imagine if it saves one student’s life who would have died from a marijuana overdose if the dog hadn’t found it in his coat. Wouldn’t you say it’s worth it I understand your meaning and agree, but as far as anyone knows, nobody has ever died from a marijuana overdose. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/38 "2015-11-30T21:05:23Z")
If the OP is concerned, give your local ACLU a call after work. If they’re concerned, they can try for an injunction to stop it. If they’re not, there’s not anything else I can suggest. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/39 "2015-11-30T21:43:59Z")
Is the search for drugs or weapons/explosives? Have there been any occurrences at the school lately that would suggest a reason for a search now? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/40 "2015-11-30T21:52:29Z")
**Dragwyr** , have you discussed this with other teachers at your school? (You’re at least allowed to do that, aren’t you?) If so, does there seem to be any consensus of opinion among them about it? In other words, are you in good company in your attitude about this, or are you the lone voice crying in the wilderness? ETA: What would happen if the teachers were to conduct a massive sick-out for the day? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036.md?page=3)