# Is this legal? Planned K-9 search of a K-12 school in Michigan. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 30, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036 "2015-11-30T17:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/61 "2015-12-01T03:41:10Z")
Any of you with jobs might want to look over your employer’s policy manuals, because I’m quite sure a hell of a lot of them stipulate that your vehicles etc. can be subject to search **while on company property.** And I’m sure a “one day boycott” would be _really effective._ ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/62 "2015-12-01T04:35:50Z")
> [@Dragwyr](#): > > Students will be required to place their bags and coats in the hallways during this time and students will not be allowed to leave their respective classrooms. So there is a period of time between when the bags and coats were under students control and the time such items are searched? And during this process of placing the belonging in the hallway others students are doing the same thing and also have access to other student’s items? Cause if so I’m putting my weed in Suzie’s bag while I’m in the hallway. Wouldn’t it be better to search the students individually as they enter the building? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/63 "2015-12-01T04:44:48Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > So there is a period of time between when the bags and coats were under students control and the time such items are searched? And during this process of placing the belonging in the hallway others students are doing the same thing and also have access to other student’s items? Cause if so I’m putting my weed in Suzie’s bag while I’m in the hallway. > > Wouldn’t it be better to search the students individually as they enter the building? Yeah - exactly this, School and personal belongings isn’t exactly the most secure environment - ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/64 "2015-12-01T04:49:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > 4)Weed is really bad for the developing brain > > [Recreational Marijuana Smoking Causes Abnomralities in Young Brains | TIME](http://time.com/61940/recreational-pot-use-harmful-to-young-peoples-brains/) > > [Marijuana May Hurt The Developing Teen Brain : Shots - Health News : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/02/25/282631913/marijuana-may-hurt-the-developing-teen-brain) That’s some extremely weak evidence. If you actually read them, the first link discusses a study that had a sample size of only 20 (not large enough to be statistically significant) and they only found some “differences” in certain structures, but they fully admit they have no clue what it really means: > [@](#): > > the nucleus accumbens and amygdala showed changes in density, volume and shape. > [@](#): > > “The next important step is to investigate how structural abnormalities relate to functional outcomes,” says Jodi Gilman, an instructor at Harvard Medical School who collaborated on the study. The second article, which is mostly an opinion piece, cites two studies that claim people who used cannabis persistently during developmental phases (and sometimes beyond), “lost” IQ points in adulthood, moreso than those who did not. They also did some flat comparisons of people who had and hadn’t smoked marijuana, which doesn’t prove much: > [@](#): > > It wasn’t just IQ. Adults who smoked marijuana as teenagers did worse in tests of memory and decision-making than adults who hadn’t smoked pot. And brings up the correlation/causation flaw: > [@](#): > > But there’s an important caveat here: Those who used the most marijuana in the Meier study had lower IQs to begin with. Dr. Gregory Tau, a psychiatrist and drug abuse researcher at Columbia University, says there’s a chicken-and-egg dilemma with many marijuana studies, including this one. > > “It’s very possible that there’s something very different to begin with among teenagers who tend to get into trouble with marijuana or who become heavy users,” Tau says. "They could have subtle emotional differences, perhaps some cognitive functioning differences. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/65 "2015-12-01T05:06:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Courthouses and government buildings are not schools. So freaking what? Show me what allows authorities to break into a non-students locked car without any warrant, reasonable suspicion, or probable cause just because they parked in a school lot while they went in to pick up their transcripts. Case law and statutory law says no AFAIK. A sign that says ANY car can be searched is B.S. and I challenge that claim. I come out of a building and someone is inside my vehicle poking around, regardless of where I parked, we’re going to dance. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/66 "2015-12-01T10:39:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > **Dragwyr** , have you discussed this with other teachers at your school? (You’re at least allowed to do that, aren’t you?) If so, does there seem to be any consensus of opinion among them about it? > > In other words, are you in good company in your attitude about this, or are you the lone voice crying in the wilderness? > > ETA: What would happen if the teachers were to conduct a massive sick-out for the day? I’m probably the lone wolf on this. Based on what I know about the teachers they would not have a problem with this. On the other hand the teachers don’t really like administration. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/67 "2015-12-01T12:08:50Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So freaking what? Show me what allows authorities to break into a non-students locked car without any warrant, reasonable suspicion, or probable cause just because they parked in a school lot while they went in to pick up their transcripts. > > Case law and statutory law says no AFAIK. A sign that says ANY car can be searched is B.S. and I challenge that claim. > > I come out of a building and someone is inside my vehicle poking around, regardless of where I parked, we’re going to dance. neildegrassetyson.jpg ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/68 "2015-12-01T14:03:24Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Is the search for drugs or weapons/explosives? Have there been any occurrences at the school lately that would suggest a reason for a search now? he county where I live has high drug use among teens. I’ve heard of teachers talking about how students of theirs were suspended for drug use during school hours. My educated guess is that this is for drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/69 "2015-12-01T14:08:29Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So freaking what? Show me what allows authorities to break into a non-students locked car without any warrant, reasonable suspicion, or probable cause just because they parked in a school lot while they went in to pick up their transcripts. > > Case law and statutory law says no AFAIK. A sign that says ANY car can be searched is B.S. and I challenge that claim. > > I come out of a building and someone is inside my vehicle poking around, regardless of where I parked, we’re going to dance. I don’t think we’re talking about non-student cars. I’m not, at least. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/70 "2015-12-01T14:51:43Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > People die from consuming weed; but nt from smoking it. > > [Edible Marijuana Candies Kill 9 in Colorado, 12 at Coachella - Topekas News](http://topekasnews.com/edible-marijuana-candies-kill-9-colorado-12-coachella/) > [@madsircool](#): > > But people still die. Just to clarify, topekasnews dot com is [satire](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/04/d-a-r-e-gets-duped-by-anti-pot-satire), and pretty obvious satire at that. I mean, look at the other posts by “Haywood Bynum III”. Stuff like “Krokodil Marijuana Sweeps Across Colorado, Residents Eating Each Other In The Streets” and “Marijuana Causes Biblical Plague To Break Out in Colorado.” ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/71 "2015-12-01T15:39:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I come out of a building and someone is inside my vehicle poking around, regardless of where I parked, we’re going to dance. First, I believe you are factually correct wrt vehicle searches. Second, on first read I imagined you observing someone who has broken into and entered your car and your response was to begin singing _Jump, Jive, and Wail_ and swing dancing wildly with the miscreant. Thank you for that mental movie.😃 ETA: kids are in school to learn. I would hope parents and teachers will use an opportunity like this to discuss with students the various arguments for and against what is happening. Or do I expect too much? ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/72 "2015-12-01T15:56:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > _in loco parentis_ - Latin for “like your crazy parents”. No, it means “dad’s on the train”. _Locus_ is Latin for “place”, _in_ takes the dative in this instance so _in loco parentis_ is literally “in the place of the parent” (switch around the articles if you like, Latin does not have them) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/73 "2015-12-01T16:39:25Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So freaking what? Show me what allows authorities to break into a non-students locked car without any warrant, reasonable suspicion, or probable cause just because they parked in a school lot while they went in to pick up their transcripts. > > Case law and statutory law says no AFAIK. A sign that says ANY car can be searched is B.S. and I challenge that claim. > > I come out of a building and someone is inside my vehicle poking around, regardless of where I parked, we’re going to dance. A sign can generally imply consent at places like an airport checkpoint, where the passenger presents himself and impliedly consents to be searched. But you’re right – a sign in a parking lot generally cannot create consent to be searched. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/74 "2015-12-01T18:56:16Z")
Can dogs also detect pepper and chili, if sprinkled in liberal quantities around nd over many of the items to be searched? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/75 "2015-12-01T19:03:13Z")
Yes they can, and doing that to your school pack and such can lead to other sanctions/searches. _New Jersey v T.L.O._ settled that back in 1985. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/76 "2015-12-01T19:05:31Z")
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. _New Jersey v. TLO_ is not relevant. That case involved a physical search of an individual student based on particularized suspicion, which is a completely different scenario. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/77 "2015-12-01T19:14:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think we’re talking about non-student cars. I’m not, at least. I can accept that. Students generally have to fill out a form and get some kind of sticker/card for whatever vehicle they are going to bring to school. This usually includes a consent waiver for search. At least this is how it’s done around here, YMMV. I’ve never been assigned as permanent liaison officer so I haven’t dealt with this stuff much. It’s a coveted position because it’s basically 7-3 with weekends and holidays off. I’d rather poke my eyes out than work in an entire building of those little pricks. Sorry for the rough talk.:o ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/78 "2015-12-01T19:18:34Z")
I hear you can get in trouble for looking at their pricks, so it’s probably for the best that you don’t have a liason job. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/79 "2015-12-01T20:23:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. _New Jersey v. TLO_ is not relevant. That case involved a physical search of an individual student based on particularized suspicion, which is a completely different scenario. Read for comprehension. My post was a direct response to **md2000** directly above it. Putting pepper or oil on your pack to foil a search dog is certainly “reasonable suspicion” that the student is hiding illegal activity. That’s all an administrator needs to initiate a search. Kids at my school have tried it, and it always ends poorly for them. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036/80 "2015-12-01T20:28:41Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Would you be all self-righteous if they found a weapon or two? Sure. Living in a police state offends me. ETA: searching citizens’ possessions because it’s legal and people in authority feel like it, and hey, it’s only kids with limited rights. Fuck that. I thought “limited government” was a bipartisan value [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-planned-k-9-search-of-a-k-12-school-in-michigan/739036.md?page=5)