# Is this legal - work place related? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440 "2010-11-04T11:49:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/21 "2010-11-05T13:38:04Z")
> [@gone2thedogs](#): > > Wow, I’m glad I don’t work for you. I can’t imagine how you can rationalize your thinking. Really? You can’t imagine how an employer can rationalize wanting you to be at work on time? How about this, I’m glad you don’t work for me. And I’m sure **fluiddruid** is too. Personally, I am not always the most punctual person on the block. But I do frequently put in hours above and beyond my base of 40. So, I have a job which allows me to make my own schedule and doesn’t involve a lot of micromanagement as long as I report my hours. If you know you are that type of person, you should maybe try to find a similarly structured job. However, if I did have a position which required being on time every day, I wouldn’t be upset when I was written up for tardiness. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/22 "2010-11-05T13:53:47Z")
Wow. You sound exactly like the annoying, unreliable kind of coworker that used to drive me nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/23 "2010-11-05T14:31:31Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Since FMLA doesn’t kick in until after a year of employment, frankly you’re lucky they didn’t kick you out on your keyster for your 3 hospital stays in the first 4 months. This. At my company, you would have been out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/24 "2010-11-05T14:31:56Z")
Perfectly legal. And my guess is that you have a boss who wants to be nice, who has a boss who is saying “you have too much absenteeism and tardiness in your group.” Find another job. Your chances of not ending up terminated with cause (and therefore, in some states, not being eligible for unemployment) here are slim. Also, since you are looking right now and haven’t found anything, I’d cut your expenses down - you are going to be unemployed, perhaps without unemployment compensation. To maximize the slim chance you are not fired in the next 30-60 days, toe the line - and then some. Be on time every day. Do not make your sick children your employers problem - if your kids are sick, make other arrangements for their care. Show up at work unless you are actually so sick that you run a real risk you might vomit on someone. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/25 "2010-11-05T14:49:02Z")
Your boss has not really done you any favors by accommodating your absences/tardiness, because now he (or she) has to rein you in. But ultimately it’s your responsibility to meet the attendance requirements. On the bright side, you probably are eligible for FMLA now (if your company has \>50 people) so if you do end up hospitalized again, or you or your kid get seriously sick, you’d be protected. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/26 "2010-11-05T14:54:46Z")
> [@gone2thedogs](#): > > Wow, I’m glad I don’t work for you. I can’t imagine how you can rationalize your thinking. The rationale is that we are paying you to come into work and perform a job. If you are not coming into work, you are not performing your job and we are essentially paying you to do nothing. We don’t have to pay anything to have nothing done. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/27 "2010-11-05T14:59:48Z")
I feel badly for the OP but only by virtue of the fact that she probably came here to be coddled and validate her mis-guided notion that her employer is treating her unfairly. And while the responses have been justifiably harsh, I hope she has had a kick in her complacent butt that she’s the one who needs to straighten out her act to maintain her job and become a model employee. I completely concur with those who are advising that sick children are not something that your employers care about. There are too many unemployed people out there who won’t bring their problems to work and, as hard as it might be, if she wants to keep her job, it has to become a priority to learn how to manage family responsibilities with work responsibilities. Harsh as it is, hopefully she is not indignant at the suggestions which have been given, but is taking it to heart that she’s gotten away with stuff and expected the lackadaisical attitude towards attendance to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/28 "2010-11-05T15:25:11Z")
> [@maryland20711](#): > > Just hearing that I’m not the only one who thinks this is just crap is awesome! In the same way you aren’t listening to your boss, you have ignored most of the advice in this thread. > [@maryland20711](#): > > I know I can’t work like that, and I’ve had to accept this place is just no longer a good fit. Good luck on the job hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Notchimine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bcef8e/32.png) [@Notchimine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Notchimine)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/29 "2010-11-05T17:26:36Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I only got about 1/4 way down that OP and decided I would have fired you long ago if you worked for me. Agreed but I think the part that gets me is the fact that instead of being appreciative that she has not been let go, she wants to know if her employers have to legally continue to take her “abuse”. My company has a specific policy regarding days out. You get 18 per year to do what you want or need to do. That includes hospitalizations or trips to St Thomas. After that, every day is unexcused. After three, you are let go. The explanation is that the company needs its employees to be at work. If you are ill, it is unfortunate, but you aren’t doing your job and that is a hardship for others. Also, you can take no time off during your 90 day probationary period so she would have been let go anyway and wouldn’t have the time or opportunity to be late or take sick days for her kid’s illnesses. I don’t know what kind of job she thinks she is going to find that has been so patient with her regarding time out. Seems to me she should be grateful they kept her on throughout her hardships when replacing her would have been easier. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/30 "2010-11-05T19:09:13Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > I completely concur with those who are advising that sick children are not something that your employers care about. There are too many unemployed people out there who won’t bring their problems to work and, as hard as it might be, if she wants to keep her job, it has to become a priority to learn how to manage family responsibilities with work responsibilities. Just to clarify a little bit in this area, since I brought it up earlier. It’s not that I don’t care that your kids are sick – that sucks. But, unfortunately, if you’re a single parent, your kids get sick frequently (not FMLA qualifying, things like colds), and your only backup is to stay home and weakly suggest to work from home after you call in, there aren’t a lot of places that are going to be able to let this go. It’s ultimately not the workplace’s responsibility to solve these issues - it’s yours. Most workplaces give a reasonable amount of leeway here, but it seems like you’ve exhausted this. I was accused of being an ogre a few times by people who felt that “my kid is sick” is the workplace equivalent of a get-out-of-jail-free card. It’s not, just like you being sick isn’t. I definitely realize that it can be extremely difficult to find daycare for kids who are legitimately sick, and that some folks have very few options in terms of support from family members or others who could help them. It sucks, and I’m sorry for such people. Likewise I feel sorry for the person who can’t afford a car because of their medical bills, but when they’re late every day blaming the bus, my answer isn’t going to be, oh, poor you, just take as much time as you want. It’s going to be that this problem needs a solution - an earlier bus, taking a different shift if it’s available, or finding alternate transportation. And it’s up to the employee to figure that out. As a human, I feel compassion when others have poor luck in life. But as a manager, I’ve had to tell people, this isn’t grade school - these are your responsibilities. If you can’t show up when you’re supposed to and when your job needs you to be there, your options are to find a solution or find a new job. Short-term exceptions can be made, but if you’re asking for these very early on in your tenure, it’s a huge red flag that will color every other request you make. One hint, if you do end up looking for a different job that might meet your needs a bit better. I find that if you go the extra mile to avoid absences and be on time when you are new, you get more leeway and understanding. First impressions and all that. Even if everyone else is late - be on time. Even if others leave early - stay. Show that you can be responsible before you expect the privileges of flexibility. That way, when I say that I have an emergency or I ask for some leeway – even in workplaces that are generally a pain in the ass about attendance and timekeeping – it’s not a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/31 "2010-11-05T21:15:16Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > As a human, I feel compassion when others have poor luck in life. But as a manager, I’ve had to tell people, this isn’t grade school - these are your responsibilities. If you can’t show up when you’re supposed to and when your job needs you to be there, your options are to find a solution or find a new job. Short-term exceptions can be made, but if you’re asking for these very early on in your tenure, it’s a huge red flag that will color every other request you make. Yep, as a manager, I have a business to run. Lets say I’m roofing houses. Its going to take 4 people 2 eight hour days to roof Bob’s house. I have Tom’s house scheduled to go right after that. So that’s 32 hours to roof a house. Your kids get sick. Now I either pay the rest of the guys overtime to roof the house on time (eating into the minuscule profits most roofers in a competitive market make), or I finish Bob’s house late, show up at Tom’s house late, upsetting two customers and pushing my whole roofing schedule out by half a day. I can run a business like that for once in a while stuff and wing it once in a while stuff - but I can’t run a business based off my resources showing up late or calling in sick with any regularity - a roofing company who has dependable resources will be able to cut me out by providing more reliable services at a lower cost. I can have sympathy for you as a person, but I can’t let you drive my business into the ground - three other people and myself are dependent on me having a viable business. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/32 "2010-11-05T21:49:01Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > J\ > One hint, if you do end up looking for a different job that might meet your needs a bit better. I find that if you go the extra mile to avoid absences and be on time when you are new, you get more leeway and understanding. First impressions and all that. Even if everyone else is late - be on time. Even if others leave early - stay. Show that you can be responsible before you expect the privileges of flexibility. That way, when I say that I have an emergency or I ask for some leeway – even in workplaces that are generally a pain in the ass about attendance and timekeeping – it’s not a problem. This is so critical - if you’re the employee who is at work 10 minutes early every day, ready to go with a smile on your face, your boss will bend over backwards for you if you should legitimately need some flexibility in the future (and policies allow it). If you’re the slackass who wanders in five minutes late, then spends 20 minutes getting coffee, spends half the day making personal calls and calls in sick most Mondays and Fridays, your boss will be watching the clock on you and questioning every time you are late or sick (until the point where they give you written notice to shape up or ship out). It’s like banking goodwill. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/33 "2010-11-05T23:27:48Z")
> [@maryland20711](#): > > I I was 13 minutes later yesterday and she required that I either make up the time during my lunch or stay late. The OP isn’t even being treated unfairly here. Come in 13 minutes late, work 13 minutes past the usual quitting time. I don’t get it, the OP is bitching about this? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/34 "2010-11-06T02:38:44Z")
I have to agree with all the other people who say that your attendance is _your_ responsibility. Especially with 3 hospitalizations in your probationary period. Speaking as someone who is always on time, always at work, I resent people who seem to think attendance is at their discretion. When you’re not at work, someone has to pick up the slack. I’m sure that individually, each occurrence seems justified. But when taken as a whole, it becomes a personal philosophy that reflects very poorly on you. You’re not dependable. If you expect to continue to work in corporate America, be ready to make work your priority from Monday -Friday from 8:00 to 5:00. StG ---
**Author:** ![AmericanMaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@AmericanMaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmericanMaid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/35 "2010-11-06T05:05:54Z")
I’m unemployed and have always had perfect work attendance. When you get fired, PM me your company’s name so I can get a job. K thnx bai! ---
**Author:** ![SleepyDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SleepyDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleepyDuck)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/36 "2010-11-06T09:48:19Z")
The OP itself didn’t raise any flags with me; I’ve worked with plenty of people who shared the same attitude. This, though: > [@maryland20711](#): > > Thanks, everyone, for your insight 🙂 Just hearing that I’m not the only one who thinks this is just crap is awesome! Again, the part that burns my ass the most is the sudden flip from everything being copacetic to micromanaging. I know I can’t work like that, and I’ve had to accept this place is just no longer a good fit. Thanks, again, to those who took time to respond. My sanity thanks you 😉 plus a quick glance at the OP’s join date kinda registered a :dubious:. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/37 "2010-11-06T14:19:59Z")
Sleepy Duck ~ Yep, she came to ask the one question, thanked the one person who seemed to agree with her and hasn’t been back in two days. My guess is she wanted _some_ validation for her stance (got it) and is now completely oblivious the rest of what has been said. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/38 "2010-11-06T14:58:49Z")
> [@maryland20711](#): > > Is this legal - work place related? Legal advice: pay an employment lawyer in your jurisdiction to advise you. Practical advice: fewer work breaks, and more paragraph breaks. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/39 "2010-11-06T16:06:38Z")
Is it legal for your employer to expect you to show up at work and do the job they hired you to do? I’m going with yes. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440/40 "2010-11-06T16:18:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Is it legal for your employer to expect you to show up at work and do the job they hired you to do? I’m going with yes. ::Rages against patriarchal totalitarian system:: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-legal-work-place-related/559440.md?page=3)