# Is this man transphobic? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787 "2014-07-10T20:10:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/81 "2014-07-14T16:03:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s just silly. If a lesbian says she isn’t attracted to men, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t understand what men are. She doesn’t need some kind of enlightenment, which is what you’re implying. Jesus Christ - point out where I’ve said anything about the uptight person having to _do_ anything or _change_ anything? You can’t, because I didn’t. “Uptight” is a descriptor, not a call to action, FFS. And it’s not about understanding others - it’s about understanding yourself - if you _say_ you like women, but not transwomen, then either you don’t actually like all women, or you don’t consider trans women to be women. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/82 "2014-07-14T16:10:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > His argument is very clearly that, if we actually accept them as women, then we would not have any problems being attracted to them. No, it’s subtly different - if you’re _already attracted to them_ and you _stop_ being attracted when you find out they’re trans and for no other reason, then you clearly don’t actually accept them as women. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/83 "2014-07-14T16:17:06Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > From what I can tell, **Skald** never mentioned whether either Mary or Shannon had fully transitioned. Roger _asked_, but Mary never actually specifically answered. > > Does this uncertainty change anything for anybody? It’s implied. Roger asks Mary (his friend of long standing, whose status he already knows), if Shannon is a biological woman or the product of surgery; Mary says “She’s like me”; and Roger then says he could never be attracted to a post-op transexual. Clearly Roger takes"“like Mary” to mean post-op. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/84 "2014-07-14T16:33:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What’s the difference? 1. Telling a gay person to try straight sex is almost always done with the intention of getting the person to stop being gay entirely. Telling a straight person to have sex with a trans person is not trying to get the straight person to stop being straight. A straight person who has sex with a trans person is still as heterosexual as ever. 2. The vast majority of gay people _have_ tried straight sex, and found it not to their liking. Often, unsuccessful attempts to be straight are a source of considerable trauma to gay people. This is such a common narrative among gay people that someone suggesting it is immediately demonstrating massive ignorance about the most basic facts of growing up gay in the US. 3. “Not being attracted to trans people” is not a sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is unusual in its apparent immutability. Most other preferences, even those associated with sexual attraction, are much more fluid. Recommending that a straight guy try dating a trans woman is no more offensive than suggesting that a guy who only dates blondes try dating a brunette. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/85 "2014-07-14T16:36:42Z")
^thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/86 "2014-07-14T16:41:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I dunno. To me, feeling free to be incredibly blunt is a mark of close friendship. My best friend in life has said similarly “crass” things when calling me on bullshit, and vice versa. People who aren’t your best friend in life probably experience similar urges. But that’s not important right now. Deciding who I don’t want to sleep with is not “bullshit” such that anyone gets to be crass about it. You can give me crap about stuff that doesn’t matter, and I’ll return the favour with some interest, but the time it starts to get personal is the time you get to back off. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/87 "2014-07-14T16:52:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And it’s not about understanding others - it’s about understanding yourself - if you _say_ you like women, but not transwomen, then either you don’t actually like all women, or you don’t consider trans women to be women. That’s all. Unless you’re Wilt Chamberlain, who has ever said they like all women? Pretty much every man has some types of women he’s attracted to and some types he isn’t. That doesn’t mean he’s denying the womanhood of the women he’s not attracted to. You should accept that people are individuals and have their own individual preferences. And there’s nothing wrong with a person just because their individual preferences aren’t the same as yours. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/88 "2014-07-14T17:28:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How can we infer that it would have meant the world to Shannon? Granted that Mary was telling Roger the exact truth in her pitch, Shannon doesn’t even know Roger’s name. Dating can be very hard for members of the TS/TG community because many straight cis people refuse to even countenance the idea that they could be attracted to a transgender person. If it were a blind date, maybe. But it’s a dinner party. Roger’s being a dillhole about it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/89 "2014-07-14T19:52:04Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Dating can be very hard for members of the TS/TG community because many straight cis people refuse to even countenance the idea that they could be attracted to a transgender person. If it were a blind date, maybe. But it’s a dinner party. Roger’s being a dillhole about it. Since Roger is firmly of the opinion that he can’t be attracted to a transwoman, but clearly is capable of being buddies with one, isn’t it kinder of him not to give Shannon false hope? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/90 "2014-07-14T20:08:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That doesn’t mean he’s denying the womanhood of the women he’s not attracted to. It does if he is _in all other ways_ attracted to her - if he was totally into her before he finds out. > [@](#): > > You should accept that people are individuals and have their own individual preferences. And there’s nothing wrong with a person just because their individual preferences aren’t the same as yours. It’s only when that “individual preference” encompasses a denial of someone’s harmless identity that I think of it as being the least bit wrong. And not in a “you should change” kind of way, because I don’t think it’s the kind of thing people are going to _want_ to change (not that I think it’s innate, mind you) It’s not the same moral judgement of people as it would be if they were transphobic or racist. It’s just looking down on the squares. That’s OK, I expect my BDSM friends think I’m hopelessly square in my turn, but I’m not turning ponyboy just to not be considered uptight. “Uptight” is a descriptor that fits someone who would reject a woman they otherwise wouldn’t, just because there was surgery involved in building her vagina… See, people keep trying to cast this as some sort of taste or preference issue, but it really isn’t. Blonde is a taste. Freckles is a taste. Big boobs is a taste. This is something else, IMO. If you ask a man to list his wants in a woman, he’ll tell you what he likes her to look like, how he likes her to think, what he likes her to do in bed - “Has always had their own vagina” rarely comes up outside Bangkok, IME. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/91 "2014-07-14T20:14:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It does if he is _in all other ways_ attracted to her - if he was totally into her before he finds out. How could he have been attracted to her in all other ways when he’d only seen her cell phone pic and been told about her by a buddy? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/92 "2014-07-14T20:22:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How could he have been attracted to her in all other ways when he’d only seen her cell phone pic and been told about her by a buddy? In all other ways _possible_, then. Would he not have also been attracted to her in person, absent the knowledge of her being trans? That’s kind of the impression I got from the wolf whistle. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/93 "2014-07-14T20:29:26Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Dating can be very hard for members of the TS/TG community because many straight cis people refuse to even countenance the idea that they could be attracted to a transgender person. If it were a blind date, maybe. But it’s a dinner party. Roger’s being a dillhole about it. So straight cis people should change their mind about who they are attracted to so that members of the TS/TG community can feel better about themselves? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/94 "2014-07-14T21:30:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s not the same moral judgement of people as it would be if they were transphobic or racist. It’s just looking down on the squares. That’s OK, I expect my BDSM friends think I’m hopelessly square in my turn, but I’m not turning ponyboy just to not be considered uptight. I’m curious, do you read the webcomic _Girls With Slingshots_? Because there’s been a recent storyline like this. One of the women is into BDSM but she’s had a difficult time finding a boyfriend who’s also into that lifestyle. Then she met a guy she really liked but she was afraid to tell him about her interest in BDSM because she didn’t know what his reaction would be. When she finally told him, his reaction was to be concerned she wouldn’t be interested in him because he wasn’t into it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/95 "2014-07-15T06:35:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m curious, do you read the webcomic _Girls With Slingshots_? Naah. I’m familiar with it through the links/occasional crossovers with _Something Positive_, though. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/96 "2014-07-15T08:07:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m curious, do you read the webcomic _Girls With Slingshots_? Because there’s been a recent storyline like this. One of the women is into BDSM but she’s had a difficult time finding a boyfriend who’s also into that lifestyle. Then she met a guy she really liked but she was afraid to tell him about her interest in BDSM because she didn’t know what his reaction would be. When she finally told him, his reaction was to be concerned she wouldn’t be interested in him because he wasn’t into it. I know it. Most of the comments from the readership was that it would be so cool if it turned out he was into being flogged, pegged or whatever, and it would be uptight of him if he weren’t at least willing to be persuaded. At the last count, though, after the Big Reveal as above (he was a _demi-vierge_ himself) her closing comment was “…All I need is for you to love me”. Aww… ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787/97 "2014-07-15T22:21:14Z")
Does no one else think it’s ironic that the whole point of this thread is to judge him for his sexual preference? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-man-transphobic/692787.md?page=4)