# Is this Message Board left-leaning or right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377 "2005-11-16T20:33:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/41 "2005-11-17T11:35:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This board is overwhelmingly anti-Bush so that might be shifting the perception of the board to the left. Since when is being anti-Bush a position peculiar to the left? With [63% of the country expressing disapproval of how the President’s is doing his job](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/14/bush.poll/index.html?section=cnn_latest), it seems to me that being anti-Bush is an overwhelmingly mainstream and centrist position. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/42 "2005-11-17T14:06:44Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m not so sure about that first part. But I do agree that there are certain posters who get pummelled senseless on a regular basis around here. Oh, yeah, there’s sound logical reasons behind opposition to birth control and support for celibacy, and for opposing gay marriage. The feast of pure reason, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/43 "2005-11-17T14:15:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I think this board has very even distribution between the economic laissez faire end and the socialist end of the spectrum. On welfare issues like national health care and education the board leans fairly strongly to the left. On social issues like abortion and homosexuality this board is so far left that the center of the American scale is the far right of the boards scale. > > This board is overwhelmingly anti-Bush so that might be shifting the perception of the board to the left. What were Bush’s approval ratings at this week? 35% or 37%? The Dope might have an even lower rating than that, but it’s hard to call “anti-Bush” being out of the mainstream lately, though this board was generally anti-Bush even when Bush was at his highest approval ratings. I guess what I’m saying is, anti-Bush is a mainstream position right now, and wouldn’t really be shifting the board to the left. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/44 "2005-11-17T14:17:30Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > What are we to conclude from this observation, that the extreme Right is thin-skinned, or that they just lack the intellectual skills to defend their positions? No, that they get piled on and shouted down until they leave, as I mentioned. It’s not a question of thin-skinnedness or intellectual rigor. Extremist positions of any stripe tend to be difficult to defend intellectually, but the “refutation” of extreme Right positions on the SDMB is not entirely intellectual. It is also a matter of repeated Pitting, sniping, nitpicking and deliberate misrepresentation, demanding cites that the sky is blue, the automatic assumption of bad faith, and the usual process of half a dozen posters firing off questions at once and then attacking the poster if he fails to write a thesis addressing every point. You can’t really bring off the same process on extreme left positions, because there are not enough right-wing posters who are willing to use those tactics. The conservatives (myself excepted) tend to be fair-minded folks like **Bricker** or **Mr. Moto**. There are exceptions, of course, but that is the general tendency, IMO. > [@Mangetout](#): > > Crikey, I’m not sure if I dare say this, but my impression (which I do not present as factual, balanced, or infallible) of the folks on the extreme right is that they often simply fail to recognise the potential validity of any other viewpoints than their own… Well, sure - but I would hardly confine this only to positions on the extreme Right. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/45 "2005-11-17T14:21:15Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Oh, yeah, there’s sound logical reasons behind opposition to birth control and support for celibacy, and for opposing gay marriage. The feast of pure reason, indeed. Or “Diebold rigged the election”, even. 😉 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/46 "2005-11-17T14:29:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, sure - but I would hardly confine this only to positions on the extreme Right. Of course; extremism carries certainty and dogmatism with it almost by default, however, I would still say that (in my experience), the far right has more of a tendency for dichotomous argument, perhaps because of its association with religious fundamentalism - which also has a tendency toward that property. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/47 "2005-11-17T15:08:06Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Oh, yeah, there’s sound logical reasons behind opposition to birth control and support for celibacy, and for opposing gay marriage. The feast of pure reason, indeed. I support both of those, but to believe that there are no possible logical reasons to oppose either is silly, and proof of the close-mindedness that xtime is talking about. You can make all kinds of social policy arguments against both. A common argument against gay marriage is that marriage is a powerful and valuable public institution, and that watering down its definition weakens it and makes marriage less stable, with the result of more children out of wedlock, more crime, more poverty, yada yada. You can debate this and maybe even shoot it down, but it’s a reasonable argument. The same goes for birth control. If it promotes more sex, then you get more HIV, a weakening of values, sex takes on less importance so it tends to bind partners together less, which leads to more divorce, etc. Again, this argument may be refutable, but many people believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/48 "2005-11-17T15:10:38Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Of course; extremism carries certainty and dogmatism with it almost by default, however, I would still say that (in my experience), the far right has more of a tendency for dichotomous argument, perhaps because of its association with religious fundamentalism - which also has a tendency toward that property. If you are arguing that the far Right is more prone to fallacies of false dilemma than other extremists, I wouldn’t argue against you because I don’t know. I would merely say that extremists in general tend to group others into “those that agree with me 100%’” and “heretics”. I am thinking here of the fissiparation of Marxism into Stalinism, Trotskyism, Maoism, anarcho-syndicalism, etc., for example. Put more simply, extremists think everyone **else** is an extremist. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/49 "2005-11-17T15:13:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Or “Diebold rigged the election”, even. 😉 > > Regards, > Shodan When I start saying that I feel Diebold rigged the election because the Great Sky Fairy told me it did, then you can go after me on that point. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/50 "2005-11-17T15:47:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are arguing that the far Right is more prone to fallacies of false dilemma than other extremists, I wouldn’t argue against you because I don’t know. I would merely say that extremists in general tend to group others into “those that agree with me 100%’” and “heretics”. I am thinking here of the fissiparation of Marxism into Stalinism, Trotskyism, Maoism, anarcho-syndicalism, etc., for example. > > Put more simply, extremists think everyone **else** is an extremist. > > Regards, > Shodan You make some good points; perhaps it’s just that I’m more immediately familiar with the right than the left. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/51 "2005-11-17T16:38:58Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > When I start saying that I feel Diebold rigged the election because the Great Sky Fairy told me it did, then you can go after me on that point. Well, since no facts have been introduced to support the claim that Diebold rigged the election, just harebrained speculation and logic defying intuitive leaps, what exactly is the difference between making a claim based upon religious faith and one based upon partisan hysteria? Frankly, I can’t see a jot of difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/52 "2005-11-17T16:51:15Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > When I start saying that I feel Diebold rigged the election because the Great Sky Fairy told me it did, then you can go after me on that point. The president of Diebold is the Great Sky Fairy? You should have told us! 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/53 "2005-11-18T19:53:02Z")
It tilts left, worse than the Leaning Tower of Pisa. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/54 "2005-11-18T20:49:52Z")
…and everyone knows friend **Clothahump** is clearly a middle-of-the-spectrum moderate! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/55 "2005-11-18T21:52:00Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Oh, yeah, there’s sound logical reasons behind opposition to birth control and support for celibacy, and for opposing gay marriage. The feast of pure reason, indeed. Who has ever come on this board advocating a ban on birth control? But it IS against the teaching of the Catholic Church (even if it’s largely ignored in the US), so one might as well say that Jews who keep Kosher can’t defend their behavior. In fact, no religious practices stand up to logical scrutiny. But banning birth control is a very, very fring idea. That simply is not representative of typical social conservative ideas. By celibacy, I assume you mean abstinance for minors. No, there are no good arguments to defend the idea that minors should not engage in sex. :rolleyes: Gay marriage? Again, it’s a religious thing. Most Americans oppose it, as do the vast majority of US Congressmen/women. One needn’t be a social conservative to oppose SSM, unless you want to call Kerry, Clinton, and Kennedy social conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/56 "2005-11-18T22:11:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It tilts left, worse than the Leaning Tower of Pisa. I thought the Leaning Tower of Pisa tilted south… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/57 "2005-11-19T00:37:59Z")
I think it tilts away from wherever you happen to view yourself. Certainly there is now a bumper crop of Bush-bashers, but that’s to be expected when he is the biggest game in town. I wasn’t here when Clinton was president, but presumably the anti-Clintonites were active then. The political story is always the incumbent, doubly so when said incumbent starts a war. I agree with John Mace the the libertarian philosophy is grossly overrepresented here, I’d say by at least a power of ten. Other than that, I see a cadre of righties and lefties and a few moderates. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/58 "2005-11-19T02:20:24Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > By celibacy, I assume you mean abstinance for minors. No, there are no good arguments to defend the idea that minors should not engage in sex. :rolleyes: I’m pretty sure he’s talking about abstinance-only sex ed. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/59 "2005-11-19T22:52:20Z")
IMHO this board is Leftist even by British, if not European, standards. However, the Leftists are far more cohesive than those of the Right, so that makes the board seem even more skewed to the Left. It further seems to me that those on the Left are less respectful of the right (as opposed to Right) of others to hold positions with which the Left disagree. Just look at the denigration of Fox in the U.S., or the Daily Mail in the U.K. Where IMHO the board is neutral is on the Statist / Libertarian axis, with a few well-spoken outriders (hi, **Liberal** ). ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377/60 "2005-11-20T09:10:08Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Who has ever come on this board advocating a ban on birth control? But it IS against the teaching of the Catholic Church (even if it’s largely ignored in the US), so one might as well say that Jews who keep Kosher can’t defend their behavior. Jews aren’t trying to use government to force me to keep Kosher nor does them keeping Kosher affect me. As far as I am concerned they need not defend their behavior to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-message-board-left-leaning-or-right/331377.md?page=4)