# Is this offensive? Apatow and Dunham takes offense at question regarding nudity **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460 "2014-01-10T19:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/41 "2014-01-11T18:56:19Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > …from the opening skit to the 2012 Emmy Awards. I don’t remember a scene like that actually being in the show, and searching Google, every reference to that scene is regarding the Emmy Awards video. Oh shit really? I’d seen enough awkward nudity by the time I tapped out it didn’t seem out of place. That’s pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/42 "2014-01-11T18:59:58Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > I don’t know how that kind of character could establish and maintain friendships, male or female. Most of the other people on the show are just as bad. As a counter-example to “everyone only talks about it because she’s unattractive,” Game of Thrones. Everyone that’s nude on there is like a 9, but the gratuitous nudity is talked about constantly. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/43 "2014-01-11T20:34:49Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > All this talk of nudity has piqued my interest in “Girls”. Having never seen the show, what is the demographic? Is it geared mainly towards women like “Sex in the City”, or does it have a broader appeal? It’s about whiny, self-centered, 20-something, rich hipsters in New York. I find it entertaining. But if you hate hipsters or first world problems or navel-gazing or young people or New York, then you’ll likely hate the show. Yet still manage to talk a lot about it anyway while you don’t watch. There’s little middle ground in opinion. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/44 "2014-01-11T20:41:51Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I didn’t get that. He was saying (by my reading) that he gets the nudity in GoT because it’s obviously set up to be titillating. The nudity in Girls is (to my understanding) much more mundane which makes one wonder why it’s there. If Dunham’s nudity was set in a more overtly sexual context it would be more obvious what they were trying to accomplish. > > It seems a fair question and “Cause people get nude” seems a very weak answer when it’s largely restricted to a single member of the cast. Are the rest of the cast not people? My personal take on the question, and the weakness of answer is actually the same as yours. I was just pointing out how a creative team could read into it (probably incorrect) implications that might offend them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/45 "2014-01-11T21:23:12Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > It’s about whiny, self-centered, 20-something, rich hipsters in New York. I find it entertaining. > > But if you hate hipsters or first world problems or navel-gazing or young people or New York, then you’ll likely hate the show. Yet still manage to talk a lot about it anyway while you don’t watch. > > There’s little middle ground in opinion. Pretty well summed up. Apatow was asked how the viewers are supposed like these characters. He said who says you’re supposed to like them? Realistic portrayals of people I don’t like do not entertain me. I did give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/46 "2014-01-11T22:38:47Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I’m not really sure who’s side I’m on when it comes to whether it is offensive or not. The question is certainly worded badly. But the answers are even worse. A creative work should have a purpose for everything and “that’s just life” is not a purpose. If their purpose is to be titillating, to demystify the female body, to address body image, to give us a more intimate view of a character - those are all purposes. If you’re writing a show, you should be able to answer a simple question about the purpose without attacking the reporter (and his girlfriend!), regardless of whether you like the guy or not. A creative work does not have to have a purpose, and creative artists have no obligation whatsoever to justify or explain their work. I guess you could argue that since Dunham, Apatow, and Konner voluntarily put themselves in front of the press, they could have prepared more anodyne answers to the predictable nudity question. But I don’t blame Apatow and Konner one bit for going off on the reporter, who seemed weirdly tone-deaf to the implications of his question. And Dunham DID answer him; her answer made perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/47 "2014-01-11T23:24:18Z")
Steve, What do you think are the implications of his question? There is that Dunham is not good looking enough to titillate most viewers. Aside from that? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/48 "2014-01-11T23:26:52Z")
> [@steveroo](#): > > A creative work does not have to have a purpose, and creative artists have no obligation whatsoever to justify or explain their work. While technically true, this ring a bit hollow when the “creative artists” in question are voluntarily sitting on a panel explicitly for the Television Critics Association to ask them questions. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/49 "2014-01-11T23:38:39Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > While he doesn’t use foul language, I wouldn’t say his material is entirely wholesome. > > And Achmed is nude. :MontyPython:It’s just a flesh wound:MontyPython: ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/50 "2014-01-11T23:43:40Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Steve, > > What do you think are the implications of his question? There is that Dunham is not good looking enough to titillate most viewers. Aside from that? I think the overall objection is a feminist one, that a woman should be able to own her sexuality and show her body when and where she’d like (legally) without having to make excuses for it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/51 "2014-01-11T23:57:14Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Tough shit, don’t do media then. There’s nothing “rude” about asking about an aspect of the show. If she’s asked about it all the time, she should be smart enough to have a brief pat answer down instead of her and the other producers flipping out when she’s asked the question. Nope. First, it’s not just “an aspect of the show”. It’s the obsession of the media since the show began, and the question is _inherently_ rude. (If you honestly dont’ get that, follow the links I gave. I think the Slate one is especially illuminating, if I recall) It doesn’t mean it should never have been asked, it should have. And it has been. To death. Secondly, it’s lazy and rude to ask a question that has become, essentially, The Question that is asked and asked and asked and asked, and a decent journalist who has done their homework is not going to ask it AGAIN, they are going to write, as part of their story (if they really feel the need… it’s NOT necessary and it would be so fresh to fucking skip it, but whatever), a summary of the question having been asked to death and Dunhams many replies, they are not going to force her to answer it again. Especially if they have two fucking brain cells to rub together. Honestly…this amazes me. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/52 "2014-01-12T00:00:52Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I think the overall objection is a feminist one, that a woman should be able to own her sexuality and show her body when and where she’d like (legally) without having to make excuses for it. This does not answer my question. I asked what the implications of the TV critic’s question were. Can you tell me what the implications of his question were? How do you know that these were the implications of his question? Are you relying on mindreading to ascertain what he meant when he asked the question? Can you show me where the reporter asks for excuses from Dunham? He asked why, a creative artist being asked why s/he made creative choices is not asking for excuses. An excuse is a justification/explanation to defend a fault, right? The TV critic asked for a justification/explanation but what makes you believe that he thinks it’s fault for her to be naked? ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/53 "2014-01-12T00:04:03Z")
How come nobody is after the two for being so extremely rude to the reporter? Dunham starts right out implying that he uses prostitutes (according to the “Today’s Entertainment” article linked to above, she said " If you’re not into me, that’s your problem, and you’re going to have to kind of work that out with whatever professionals you’ve hired." Ouch!). Then they asked him if he had a girlfriend. What’s that got to do with his question? Maybe it wasn’t the best-worded question ever, and maybe they’re sick of hearing the question. All the more reason to work out a short answer (the producer’s “Just like humans,” she said with a shrug.) Wouldn’t that sort of put it to sleep? Maybe they should have let it go at that. Got to say, they come off the worst. (And I would much rather talk about Achmed.) ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/54 "2014-01-12T00:10:50Z")
If it doesn’t distract from the show or somehow adds character to the show’s “message,” then it’s fine. But senselessly parading around nudity is a cheap trick for fools. If she’s ugly and they want to parade around her nude body as a message against appearance bias, then come out and say so. Don’t hide behind righteous indignation. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/55 "2014-01-12T00:20:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Honestly…this amazes me. That’s okay, it amazes me that they can’t find a better response to a legitimate, if common, question than flipping out and going ape on the interviewer. The question is not rude and if it’s “The Question” then they shouldn’t be caught so flat-footed by it that they can’t come up with anything better than a shrieking attack on the interviewer for daring to ask it. > [@kayT](#): > > How come nobody is after the two for being so extremely rude to the reporter? All three acted like over-reacting idiots who couldn’t handle a simple question and responded with all sorts of indignation and attacks to cover for their inadequacy. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/56 "2014-01-12T00:28:01Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > How come nobody is after the two for being so extremely rude to the reporter? Dunham starts right out implying that he uses prostitutes (according to the “Today’s Entertainment” article linked to above, she said " If you’re not into me, that’s your problem, and you’re going to have to kind of work that out with whatever professionals you’ve hired." Ouch!). Then they asked him if he had a girlfriend. What’s that got to do with his question? Maybe it wasn’t the best-worded question ever, and maybe they’re sick of hearing the question. All the more reason to work out a short answer (the producer’s “Just like humans,” she said with a shrug.) Wouldn’t that sort of put it to sleep? Maybe they should have let it go at that. Got to say, they come off the worst. (And I would much rather talk about Achmed.) She meant a therapist. Women are allowed to be other professions other than prostitutes these days. The girlfriend question wasn’t implying that he didn’t have one but that she would be offended as a woman hearing that he’d asked the question, unless she was a misogynist. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/57 "2014-01-12T01:07:30Z")
He should see a therapist because he’s not into her? Huh. If all the guys not into me went to therapy, we’d run out of therapists. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/58 "2014-01-12T01:51:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Nope. First, it’s not just “an aspect of the show”. It’s the obsession of the media since the show began, and the question is _inherently_ rude. It most certainly is _not_, and it sounds ridiculous to say it is. “Why did you make artistic choice X?” is not _inherently_ a rude question. And that it all the question was - this is blatantly obvious to me. In context, the question is in fact showing Dunham respect as an author, by assuming she has motives beyond the prurient. Nobody asks the people who make _Game of Thrones_ why there are so many naked people in the show. You know why? It’s not because the naked people are attractive. It’s because it’s brutally obvious why the nudity is there. There’s no deeper purpose. It’s there to turn on the viewer - to increase interest among certain segments of the audience. It’s kind of a cheap trick, but it’s an obvious one and everyone understands pandering, so there’s no need to ask about it. _Girls_ is different. It is clear that its creators believe themselves to be artists, and their work to be on the deeper side. The nudity is odd - and it would be whether it were Lena Dunham or Scarlett Johannson or Steve Carell. It does not seem to be there purely to pander - if nothing else, the show and its creators seem to have set their sights on a higher level than that. So, the critic wonders: _why is it there? I respect your work enough to assume it’s not intended as sexual pandering, but don’t see how it connects with the rest of what you’re doing. Why so much nudity?_ This is a perfectly valid, respectful question about a work of art. The artist is free to decline an answer: “I’d prefer my work speak for itself.” They owe no one an explanation. But there’s nothing wrong with asking for one. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/59 "2014-01-12T02:40:42Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > She’s fucking sick to death of the ridiculous, sad, rude obsession with it. She’s talked about it and been asked about it incessently, and what a fucking incompetent journalist to bring it up AGAIN…what, they can’t google and find an endless supply of answers exactly the way I did? A journalist’s job is to get information from as close to the source as possible, not to rely on other journalists’ work unless they have to. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/60 "2014-01-13T21:31:16Z")
I think it’s a fair question. Dunham’s right in that the nudity on the show differs from nudity on, well, _Game of Thrones_, because it’s mostly everyday people doing everyday things in the nude. Everyday nudity, instead of salacious, titillating nudity. That’s something new, and it’s rather refreshing. However, she’s also being a little disingenuous. Yes, the reporter’s “you particularly” could be taken to mean “_You_? You’re overweight and average (by Hollywood standards); why are you nude so much when there’s far more attractive people on your show that could be nude?” As both Dunham and Apatow seemed to take it. But it could also be “you particularly” as in “you’re nude on the show far more than your co-stars; why is it mostly just you and no one else? If you’re being real-life nude, everyday nude, and trying to make a point with that, why isn’t anyone else on the show everyday nude?” And she’s totally dodging _that_ question. Hell, last season there was a sex scene between two of the actors where the lady was clearly being given oral sex by her boyfriend, and said lady was fully clothed from the waist up (with anything down south obscured by the other actor). What’s up with that? Does she just have a better contract than Dunham? Here’s definitely a place where being nude would make total sense, and yet we get _Knocked Up_-style nudity. It’s nonsensical. I like that Dunham’s taking risks and showing everyday nudity, because that’s new and different and something I haven’t seen before. But it’s mostly only her. And because it’s mostly only her, I start to question whether she’s trying to make a point, or if she’s just trying to make it all about her (like with so many other things she’s done). At this point, I think it’s far more of the latter, and that’s disappointing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460.md?page=4)