# Is this offensive? Apatow and Dunham takes offense at question regarding nudity **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460 "2014-01-10T19:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/61 "2014-01-14T01:14:55Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Dunham starts right out implying that he uses prostitutes (according to the “Today’s Entertainment” article linked to above, she said " If you’re not into me, that’s your problem, and you’re going to have to kind of work that out with whatever professionals you’ve hired." That’s got to be one of the most narcissistic things I’ve ever heard. Even worse than her character in the show. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/62 "2014-01-14T02:12:01Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > That’s got to be one of the most narcissistic things I’ve ever heard. Even worse than her character in the show. Dunham doesn’t seem narcissistic. Self-centered, self-hating, navel-gazing hipster, yes. Narcissist, no. And it did seem that she was referring to psychological helpers, not sexual ones. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/63 "2014-01-14T02:25:04Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Dunham doesn’t seem narcissistic. Self-centered, self-hating, navel-gazing hipster, yes. Narcissist, no. > And it did seem that she was referring to psychological helpers, not sexual ones. Yes, that’s how I understood it. So she is basically saying that if he is not attracted to her, he needs psychological help, right? That sounds to me like “egotistic admiration of one’s own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride”, not like “self-hating”. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/64 "2014-01-14T02:50:56Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Yes, that’s how I understood it. So she is basically saying that if he is not attracted to her, he needs psychological help, right? That sounds to me like “egotistic admiration of one’s own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride”, not like “self-hating”. I think it’s more, ‘You have issues with women that need to be addressed,’ than, ‘You’re crazy if you don’t find me hot.’ ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/65 "2014-01-14T16:50:02Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > I think it’s more, ‘You have issues with women that need to be addressed,’ than, ‘You’re crazy if you don’t find me hot.’ The sentence starts with “if you’re not into me”, so at least she thinks his “issues with women” are highly related to this. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/66 "2014-01-14T18:20:57Z")
If you do or say something that a lot of people wonder the same thing about and you _invite people to ask you questions_, you’re going to get the same question over and over and over and over and over. Even if you’ve already answered the same question for someone else. Maybe they weren’t listening the first time, or maybe they don’t really grok your point and want some elaboration, or maybe they don’t feel like your previous response actually answers the question, or maybe they want to see if you express yourself differently about the issue in different outlets, or maybe they just want to hear it straight from you for whatever reason. That’s just the human condition, and these folks might as well accept it. Humans being human, as Dunham herself might say. I kind of got the impression from the “naked physically, naked emotionally” comment that this is at least partly a choice to physically echo/mirror/enhance the character’s emotional vulnerability. Why they can’t just say that instead of all this bs-ing around about it, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/67 "2014-01-14T19:19:02Z")
Somehow I posted this on the wrong thread. Please ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/68 "2014-01-14T19:31:20Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I kind of got the impression from the “naked physically, naked emotionally” comment that this is at least partly a choice to physically echo/mirror/enhance the character’s emotional vulnerability. Why they can’t just say that instead of all this bs-ing around about it, I’m not sure. She’s said that before. She’s also said that she likes getting naked on screen because _ **people that look like her** _ aren’t naked on TV very often. Of course, in real life, Dunham is fairly attractive and she purposely uglies herself up for the show. So I think she’s backed away from the _ **people that look like her** _ reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/69 "2014-01-14T19:48:27Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Dunham was stupid for saying “I totally get it if you’re not into me, that’s your problem”, which totally mischaracterized the question. Yup, it’s not only completely non-sequitur, it’s downright rude; far more rude than the question. > [@](#): > > Apatow was a complete jackass. So many people these days are hiding behind “sexist” and “misogynistic” ad hominems. Yup, a big overreaction. > [@Stoid](#): > > She’s fucking sick to death of the ridiculous, sad, rude obsession with it. She’s talked about it and been asked about it incessently, and what a fucking incompetent journalist to bring it up AGAIN…what, they can’t google and find an endless supply of answers exactly the way I did? That would have been a far better response, then. Instead, they responded rudely, drawing inferences that are totally unjustified by the transcript. Maybe if he’d sneered when he asked it … unfortunately we don’t have video of the interview. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Tough shit, don’t do media then. There’s nothing “rude” about asking about an aspect of the show. Bingo. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And from that perspective, she felt she was being told she wasn’t good looking enough to do nude scenes. Only if she was making misogynistic assumptions herself, IMHO. I mean, I see your point, but the response seems way too defensive (and using an offense as the best defense – in both meanings of the word “offense”). It’s easy to present nudity that’s not salacious, even if the actress is drop-dead sexy. Of course, if they were going for salacious and failed, well then maybe they’d have a point in feeling offended. > [@steveroo](#): > > A creative work does not have to have a purpose, and creative artists have no obligation whatsoever to justify or explain their work. Good point! They could have said that. > [@kayT](#): > > How come nobody is after the two for being so extremely rude to the reporter? Count me in. They were way outside the fold. He deserves an apology. Now sure, we all make mistakes like that. But they are just that: mistakes, not justifiable responses. > [@Jophiel](#): > > That’s okay, it amazes me that they can’t find a better response to a legitimate, if common, question than flipping out and going ape on the interviewer. Right. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/70 "2014-01-14T19:54:23Z")
I can certainly imagine he could have asked it in a tone that was offensive, but being that Apatow told him to write it down and ask it to his girlfriend - it is clear they are claiming the question in and of itself is offensive. I don’t see how. She seems to like to be naked. I don’t see any problem with it - whatever her reason is. Why they would attack this guy is beyond me. Sure you get asked the same questions over and over. How many truly original questions do they really think they are going to get. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/71 "2014-01-14T19:57:55Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Steve, > > What do you think are the implications of his question? There is that Dunham is not good looking enough to titillate most viewers. Aside from that? It seemed obvious to me that the reporter was implying the following: (1) You [Lena Dunham] are not attractive; (2) therefore you must provide some other justification being nude in your show. Arguably that’s all one thing, so maybe I shouldn’t made “implications” plural. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/72 "2014-01-14T20:03:20Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > While technically true, this ring a bit hollow when the “creative artists” in question are voluntarily sitting on a panel explicitly for the Television Critics Association to ask them questions. People in the entertainment industry are often contractually obligated to make appearances like this. I don’t know if that’s the case here, but it’s not that remarkable that an actor would submit to an interview but bristle at the questions anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/73 "2014-01-14T20:18:56Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I can certainly imagine he could have asked it in a tone that was offensive, but being that Apatow told him to write it down and ask it to his girlfriend - it is clear they are claiming the question in and of itself is offensive. > > I don’t see how. She seems to like to be naked. I don’t see any problem with it - whatever her reason is. Why they would attack this guy is beyond me. Sure you get asked the same questions over and over. How many truly original questions do they really think they are going to get. Right away I see a few reasons for the nudity. #1 As you say, she likes to be naked. I doubt that is the reason. #2 She wants to show that nudity is a natural thing and she wants to turn it into something mundane. As the creator of the show she would prefer if the entire cast would follow her lead but they don’t want to be naked that often. (I believe by now most if not all have shown some nudity but not nearly as much) So she does it with her character. It shouldn’t be difficult to say that, even over and over. #3 The awkward and unsexy nudity is used to say something about the character. Since she created the character it shouldn’t be difficult to say that, even over and over. #4 A combination of 3 and 4. Again shouldn’t be hard to talk about. It is obviously a conscious choice she made about the character. Just like if she had her character wear a duck on her head every scene. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/74 "2014-01-14T23:08:20Z")
I think this incident illustrates that Dunham’s real character is reflected to a great degree by her character’s character—an extremely self-centered child of privilege who has been given opportunities not available to the vast majority of people her age and who has mistaken that circumstance for something she has earned on merit, or, in the words of the great Anne Richards, a person who was born on third based and thinks she has hit a triple. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/75 "2014-01-14T23:49:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > She’s said that before. Then why not just say it again this time (and the next 10, 000 times she gets asked that question, because it’s going to happen) and move on? Why go the fuck off on this guy? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/76 "2014-01-15T02:03:18Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Then why not just say it again this time (and the next 10, 000 times she gets asked that question, because it’s going to happen) and move on? Why go the fuck off on this guy? Because Lena Dunham is kind of a drama queen. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/77 "2014-01-15T05:08:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think this incident illustrates that Dunham’s real character is reflected to a great degree by her character’s character—an extremely self-centered child of privilege who has been given opportunities not available to the vast majority of people her age and who has mistaken that circumstance for something she has earned on merit, or, in the words of the great Anne Richards, a person who was born on third based and thinks she has hit a triple. I just need to recognize the absolute brilliance of this post. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/78 "2014-01-15T06:10:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think this incident illustrates that Dunham’s real character is reflected to a great degree by her character’s character—an extremely self-centered child of privilege who has been given opportunities not available to the vast majority of people her age and who has mistaken that circumstance for something she has earned on merit, or, in the words of the great Anne Richards, a person who was born on third based and thinks she has hit a triple. I have to echo you, **edwards\_beard**. I had heard much about this show, and caught a couple of episodes of it this weekend. That description seems pretty accurate for both the character and the person. I’d be scampering away from either if I knew them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/79 "2014-01-15T09:36:37Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Then why not just say it again this time (and the next 10, 000 times she gets asked that question, because it’s going to happen) and move on? Why go the fuck off on this guy? Because people get frustrated answering the same stupid question over and over, and sometimes lose their temper. Humans being human, as someone said. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460/80 "2014-01-15T14:10:31Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Then why not just say it again this time (and the next 10, 000 times she gets asked that question, because it’s going to happen) and move on? Why go the fuck off on this guy? Polite, intelligent answers don’t get your show free publicity. Freaking out and having everyone go ape on a guy for asking a legitimate questions gets you a multi-page SDMB thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-offensive-apatow-and-dunham-takes-offense-at-question-regarding-nudity/678460.md?page=5)