# Is this photo post-mortem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315 "2008-10-10T14:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/41 "2008-10-11T02:43:20Z")
[Here](http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/128/snap3mp9.jpg) is an enhanced shot of the dude. To me, the only thing odd about it are his pupils. It looks like he has two glass eyes, probably from either eye movement or the light. Dead men don’t have that “Darn wife is making me get my picture taken.” look. The little guy rowing the boat in the window is not alive. ---
**Author:** ![Sublata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@Sublata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublata)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/42 "2008-10-11T02:48:18Z")
> [@Susie\_Derkins](#): > > It’s even creepier when it’s [bigger](http://www.petroliaheritage.com/zpostmort.JPG)! Yikes. That girl isn’t dead, she’s Undead. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/43 "2008-10-11T03:06:54Z")
Is he Marti’s grandfather? [http://www.oddee.com/\_media/imgs/articles/a99\_feldman.jpg](http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a99_feldman.jpg) [http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2002/31/1756\_1012611579.jpg](http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2002/31/1756_1012611579.jpg) [![](http://www.lifeaftercoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/marty_feldman.jpg) ](http://www.lifeaftercoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/marty_feldman.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/44 "2008-10-11T03:15:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m unconvinced that is actually post mortem. I’ve seen hundreds of p-m pictures and none of them involved posing the deceased in a standing position or painting the eyelids. It is surely a disquieting picture and maybe there is a strange story behind it, but it isn’t that she’s dead. > Pictures with strange looking eyes are always scary. Having looked at a lot of them today (does anybody else find them very beautiful?), I’ve seen quite a few of them where the deceased is posed sitting with others, though, and the effect is supposed to be “natural”. I’ve also seen a ton of pictures of living people from the time period where the parents sit and the children stand; in fact, I’ve seen a very similar picture composition-wise where the standing daughter is my grandmother. (Uh, not dead. Not undead, just plain alive. Her eyes didn’t try to eat you, either.) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/45 "2008-10-11T03:19:42Z")
A family friend has an enormous photographic archive, including a tremendous number of memorial photos. Here’s his latest book of post-mortem pics: [http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/images.html](http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/images.html) As the title, _Sleeping Beauty_, implies, most photos have subjects with closed eyes. Though there is this pic: [http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/image%20pages/64.html](http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/image%20pages/64.html) … where the eyes are PAINTED on the lids! ---
**Author:** ![Sublata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@Sublata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublata)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/46 "2008-10-11T03:28:42Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > A family friend has an enormous photographic archive, including a tremendous number of memorial photos. Here’s his latest book of post-mortem pics: > > [http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/images.html](http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/images.html) > > As the title, _Sleeping Beauty_, implies, most photos have subjects with closed eyes. Though there is this pic: > > [http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/image%20pages/64.html](http://www.sleepingbeauty2.com/pages/image%20pages/64.html) > > … where the eyes are PAINTED on the lids! You know Dr. Burns? I have both volumes of _Sleeping Beauty_ and I just bought a copy of _A Morning’s Work_. He does have a very impressive collection of photographs. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/47 "2008-10-11T03:28:52Z")
Do you have any idea what that Sleeping Beauty book goes for? (The first one, anyway.) I thought I’d just casually Alibris it when I was looking at all these pictures today… Jesus Christ on a cracker. ---
**Author:** ![Sublata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@Sublata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublata)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/48 "2008-10-11T03:43:53Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Do you have any idea what that Sleeping Beauty book goes for? (The first one, anyway.) I thought I’d just casually Alibris it when I was looking at all these pictures today… Jesus Christ on a cracker. Yes, I was lucky enough to stumble across them as they first came out and were reasonably priced. I couldn’t afford them now. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/49 "2008-10-11T11:49:49Z")
I think the term “painted eyes” is being misinterpreted. If the eyes are painted as open, the photographer is more likely to have painted the eyes \*on the photograph \*than on the corpse. Modifying photographs that way started in photography’s earliest days and is with us still in the form of photoshop. Heck, my parents were married in 1960 and their big wedding photo is hand tinted and retouched i.e. painted. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/50 "2008-10-11T14:50:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I think the term “painted eyes” is being misinterpreted. If the eyes are painted as open, the photographer is more likely to have painted the eyes \*on the photograph \*than on the corpse. Modifying photographs that way started in photography’s earliest days and is with us still in the form of photoshop. Heck, my parents were married in 1960 and their big wedding photo is hand tinted and retouched i.e. painted. Ahh! neat. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/51 "2008-10-11T14:51:24Z")
> [@Sublata](#): > > You know Dr. Burns? I have both volumes of _Sleeping Beauty_ and I just bought a copy of _A Morning’s Work_. He does have a very impressive collection of photographs. Yes, my sister is very good friends with him. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/52 "2008-10-11T15:33:56Z")
My boyfriend says the vest is fashionable for the time period, with the buttons undone. He thinks he just has buggy eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/53 "2008-10-11T23:43:27Z")
> [@Sublata](#): > > Now I’ve had a chance to look at that flickr site … very interesting. I notice, though, that there’s [one photo](http://www.flickr.com/photos/mement0_m0ri/396739210/in/set-72157594539535491/) with a standing subject that “Memento Mori” contends is post-mortem, but the allegedly dead girl looks even livelier than my guy. I spent some time studying the larger version of this photograph today and I’m pretty certain it is not a post-mortem photograph. The girl’s eyes are painted open, but I’d bet money that the painting is on the photo not on her eyelids. downloaded the larger version and played around a bit with it in Irfanview. Her eyes look sufficiently different than mom’s and dad’s that I’m convinced they’re painted on the original image. Also, if you copy and paste a bit from other places in the image to give her more normal-looking eyes, the idea that this is a p-m photo starts looking ridiculous. It’s those badly hand-painted eyes that sell the idea, nothing else. The fixture on the floor behind her is nothing more than the base of a head support. Look at how small it is; it’s no bigger than the base of a floor lamp. No way is that thing holding her corpse upright. Several people mentioned her hands. Unless you start from the belief that she’s dead, there’s nothing terribly unusual about her hands, either, IMO. They’re no more dead looking than her mother’s. Also, what is the rolled up piece of paper in dad’s hand? If we start from the position that this is a p-m photo, he might be holding a Bible or some other religious symbol. But a rolled up piece of paper? I think this is actually a rather prosaic photo of a couple and their child. The girl’s eyes were closed and her parents paid the photographer to paint open eyes on the photo rather than have another taken. He did what looks like a bad job of it, and in mediocre scans, it looks even more bizarre. As for the paper in dad’s hand? Who knows? Maybe it’s the deed to the farm and they got their picture taken the day he paid it off or something. ---
**Author:** ![Susie\_Derkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Susie\_Derkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susie_Derkins)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/54 "2008-10-12T02:36:27Z")
I spoke briefly with the owner of [this site](http://thanatos.net/), both about the picture of the girl with her parents and the one from the OP. He maintains an extensive collection of postmortem photos. In his opinion neither are postmortem, but sellers on places like eBay use that as a selling tactic to get more money for their photos. He also invited me to share the link to his [Flicker photostream.](http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanatosdotnet/) Some very interesting photos–a variety of postmortems and oddities. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/55 "2008-10-12T11:12:27Z")
I say post-mortem. His knees are unnaturally bent. If that’s not a stand behind him, then what is it? The eyes look painted on shut eyes, or “photoshoppe-ed” - photoshop out the pupils and it appears as if they eyes are closed. Clincher for me - the corpse has been incontinent. ---
**Author:** ![m2benj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@m2benj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m2benj)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/56 "2010-07-29T22:11:19Z")
Your posting is old but I wanted to chime in anyway. Your photograph is very much post-mortem. Here are some links you’ll find very interesting. [http://www.antiquephotoalbum.nl/bloqjes/?cat=8](http://www.antiquephotoalbum.nl/bloqjes/?cat=8) [http://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/dagprocess.htm](http://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/dagprocess.htm) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/57 "2010-07-30T01:35:43Z")
Not only post-mortem, but a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/58 "2010-07-30T02:08:07Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > > [@sailor](#): > > > > My guess is it was taken with a long exposure so that the **seat-prop was to help the subject stand still** and that the eyes moved during the exposure. > > That was my thought as well. Having people held in place by stands (as seen in this photograph) and locked by furniture was common, I believe, into the 1880s. In other words, it could go way beyond simply bracing the head. I had a set of “photographers braces” at one point in my life (I’m a sucker for something strange at auctions) and once properly in one you were virtually a mannequin. Images of the dead are very common in my family; we still practice it today. But with the exception of infants, always clearly deceased and awaiting burial. > [@Sublata](#): > > . > > Zsofia, I have seen memorial photography of people propped up in chairs, one guy posed to look as if he were holding a newspaper (in Dr. Stanley Burns’ collections of memorial photos), but, true, never standing. (I hate to admit it but I am really into post mortems and memorials) The only ones like that I have seen are newer and/or still sort of – obvious? There was a famous (or semi-famous) one a few years back of a Steelers fan dead, sitting in his chair and watching game highlights on the TV. But also in what was clearly a funeral home with his (Steeler) casket sitting on the side and various flowers around him. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315/59 "2010-07-30T02:16:30Z")
> [@m2benj](#): > > Your posting is old but I wanted to chime in anyway. Your photograph is very much post-mortem. > > Here are some links you’ll find very interesting. > [http://www.antiquephotoalbum.nl/bloqjes/?cat=8](http://www.antiquephotoalbum.nl/bloqjes/?cat=8) > [The Daguerreotype Process](http://www.photohistory-sussex.co.uk/dagprocess.htm) How so? Your first link strongly implies that photos like this are _not_ post-mortem but pre-mortem with a posing stand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-photo-post-mortem/467315.md?page=2)