# Is this place really about fighting ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645 "2015-09-01T22:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/61 "2015-09-05T17:29:09Z")
I’ve no time for pedantry or sophistry, nor for refuting specious assertions. But hey, continue to have fun with it. I know you will. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/62 "2015-09-05T17:50:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It’s a nice slogan and I am not above invoking it to make other members feel bad about themselves…but is it really true? There seem to be certain subjects that are “above the requirements” for providing evidence, because … something. I showed one example, the very claim that is used to explain “why we ask for cites and if you don’t have them you are stupid”, or something like that. > [@Scumpup](#): > > most of all, I am so much smarter than you that I can’t even understand why you asked a question that dumb. That certainly happens, and like many things, it’s not open for a debate. Because reasons. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/63 "2015-09-05T19:18:16Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > You could be completely right about the numbers, but there is no cite, no way to show it, making your claim one of the sort of things people would dismiss, because you have no evidence for it. Now that is ironic.) Actually, that’s you in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/64 "2015-09-05T19:38:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Actually, that’s you in a nutshell. Oh look, it’s another claim with no evidence for it. But if nobody calls him on it, it will be considered truth. Because that’s how to fight ignorance. (irony alert) What I just typed out has no cite, no double blind peer reviewed study to link to, no way to substantiate it with sources, at least not the kind that matter. So, like so many many things, is it dismissed because of that? Or accepted as truth? The irony, it burns. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/65 "2015-09-05T21:53:43Z")
The idea that there are vastly more falsified (or never proven or crazy pulled out of the ass) scientific propositions than there are paradigm shifting ones is entirely uncontroversial. It’s silly to think that anyone would bother to test this. Suggesting that one could do a double blind study of it betrays a fundamental ignorance of those terms and of science itself. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/66 "2015-09-05T22:21:05Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The idea that there are vastly more falsified (or never proven or crazy pulled out of the ass) scientific propositions than there are paradigm shifting ones is entirely uncontroversial. Yes, the idea certainly is. The claim was > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > For every paradigm-shifting idea like tectonic plates or H. Pylori gastritis that turns out to be true, there’s over 100,000 ideas put forth that do not pan out. That then is the basis to say > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Given that, I’d say we’ve got the right attitude here, asking for good evidence to back up the claims. I simply asked for good evidence to back up _that_ claim, which is the premise used to justify “the right attitude here”. So I used “the right attitude” to ask for evidence for a claim, one that sounds a little far fetched. Certainly there may be far more ideas that are wrong, but hundred of thousands of wrong ones for each new idea that turns out to be right? I didn’t even go into the more detailed problems, which is the examples used, plate tectonics and the discovery of a bacteria that causes ulcers. I don’t believe for a second that there were (or are) over a 100,000 wrong ideas being put forth about the cause of ulcers, or for why the earth behaves as it does. It’s a made up figure, with no evidence to back it up. **Doesn’t mean the general idea is wrong** , because it certainly is not. But when somebody claims something ridiculous, in this case - [For every paradigm-shifting idea like tectonic plates or H. Pylori gastritis that turns out to be true, there’s over 100,000 ideas put forth that do not pan out"](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18656720&postcount=50), which is just not true at all, they should be prepared to back it up with evidence. If it was just pulled out of ones ass, simply a made up figure, then just say so. If, as we saw, it was an estimate based on figures from new drug chemicals and a quote from Edison, then that is the evidence for the claim. To put forth a “fact” as the basis for asking for evidence, but not having any evidence for the “fact” used as the basis for asking for evidence, it’s ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/67 "2015-09-05T22:23:10Z")
Jesus, you agree with the point, but you’re arguing about the precise number? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/68 "2015-09-05T22:33:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Jesus, you agree with the point, but you’re arguing about the precise number? I’m surprised that this surprises you.😉 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/69 "2015-09-05T23:00:27Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Oh look, it’s another claim with no evidence for it. But if nobody calls him on it, it will be considered truth. Because that’s how to fight ignorance. As evidence, I offer up your entire posting history. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/70 "2015-09-05T23:21:43Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > … you agree with the point, but you’re arguing about the precise number? I’m not arguing about anything. I asked, as an example of wanting evidence, for the source of such a huge number. Now we know there isn’t actually one, it was a made up number, and simple logic is enough to know it is a ridiculous number. **If you buy that made up fact** , then you might think that while Barry J. Marshall and J. Robin Warren were hard at work on proving the Helicobacter pylori was the cause of a disease that killed many thousands of people each year, there were over 100,000 nonsense idea put forth about the causative agent of peptic ulcers. Which is ridiculous in the extreme. Same for the tectonic theory. If you buy that made up figure, the delusion that there were thousands of crazy ideas being put forth about large-scale motion of Earth’s lithosphere. Which is nonsense. When Wegener put forth his theory in 1912, he not only built upon others ideas, there were very few other competing theories, and certainly there wasn’t over a 100,000 wrong ideas being put forth. That’s an absurd idea itself. Even if you added up every last wrong idea for the last 100 years about everything under the sun, you wouldn’t have over a 100,000 wrong theories out there. See? I just made that fact up, and if you don’t believe it, you are just arguing over the actual number. Not the fact that I made up something and presented it as a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/71 "2015-09-06T01:03:45Z")
Good friggin’ grief! What an utterly inconsequential hill to choose to die/hijack a thread on. **Qadgop** was making an _observation_, not a statistical assertion. Everyone knows what he meant and much more likely than not they agreed with that observation. At first I thought you parodying the style of some of the board’s posters whose primary line of defense in an argument is to attemp to obfuscate points they don’t like by getting them bogged down in bogus cite demands. I thought this was your way of illustrating to the OP what a cheap, silly and dishonest tactic this is. **Qadgop** is among the smartest and more highly educated of the board’s posters. He’s also one of the coolest, never appearing smug or superior or to sit in judgement of those whose political views conflict with his. My take is that if any one poster would make the greatest offline friend to the largest and most diverse bunch of _SDMB_ posters, it would be him. So in short I think you’re barking up a completely empty tree and probably earning enmity from a lot of the thread’s readers for no good reason whatsoever. If I were you I’d back way off and let the thread continue its otherwise normal course. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/72 "2015-09-06T02:20:38Z")
I forget. Are we allowed to talk about paper towel tubes? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/73 "2015-09-06T02:22:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Good friggin’ grief! What an utterly inconsequential hill to choose to die/hijack a thread on. It’s a minor point. A prime rule for enjoying life online, don’t take yourself too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/74 "2015-09-06T03:05:39Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I sincerely doubt that. Hey, they pays their money they takes their chances. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/75 "2015-09-06T13:46:11Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I forget. Are we allowed to talk about paper towel tubes? You’ve been warned previously for raising this issue, so I think you know the answer. And now you’re being warned again. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/76 "2015-09-06T15:22:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’d be very interested in photos of the panel of moderators with their pants down… AAAAARRGGGHH!! :eek: That is a mental image none of us needed to have. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/77 "2015-09-06T17:27:26Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > You’ve been warned previously for raising this issue, so I think you know the answer. And now you’re being warned again. It would be the literal height of irony to be banned for something another member did. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/78 "2015-09-06T21:52:48Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > This place can’t even work out what 14 k of g in a f p d is. Fucking pathetic. A typo for 14kg in a f(ive) p(ound) b(ag)? Because that’s always what it looks like to me. I’m not saying it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/79 "2015-09-07T12:13:29Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > It would be the literal height of irony to be banned for something another member did. And if the day comes where that actually happens, we’ll all be amazed. YOU, of course, were banned for repeatedly violating mod instructions, and so this statement doesn’t apply in any way at all. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645/80 "2015-09-07T15:19:06Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I didn’t even go into the more detailed problems, which is the examples used, plate tectonics and the discovery of a bacteria that causes ulcers. I don’t believe for a second that there were (or are) over a 100,000 wrong ideas being put forth about the cause of ulcers, or for why the earth behaves as it does. It’s a made up figure, with no evidence to back it up. He didn’t say that there were over 100,000 wrong ideas for each of those specific problems, and your over-interpretation of his comment is ridiculously pedantic in order to, what, show that sometimes we all resort to hyperbole? > [@](#): > > To put forth a “fact” as the basis for asking for evidence, but not having any evidence for the “fact” used as the basis for asking for evidence, it’s ironic. Cool. Is that the point you wanted to make, or are you going to beat this horse corpse with a dead herring? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-place-really-about-fighting-ignorance/729645.md?page=5)