# Is This Possible? (Warning: Cruel and in Poor Taste) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496 "2003-01-30T02:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Joyfulgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Joyfulgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joyfulgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/1 "2003-01-30T02:04:28Z")
Searching the web, I came across [this site](http://www.godecookery.com) for Medieval recipes and cooking tips. There’s some bizarre stuff on there, (Including how to cook with quicksilver and lye :eek: ), but some of the strangest involves cooking animals, and then serving them while they’re still alive. From [here](http://www.godecookery.com/incrd/incrd.htm#009) > [@](#): > > Take a Duck, or a Goose, or some such lusty creature, but he Goose is best for this purpose. Pull all the Feathers from his body, leaving his head and his neck. Then make a fire round about him, not too narrow, lest the smoke choke him, or the fire should roast him too soon. Not too wide, lest he escape unroasted. Inside set everywhere little pots full of water, and put Salt and Meum to them. Let the Goose be smeared all over with Suet, and well Larded, that he may be the better meat, and roast the better. Put the fire about, but make not too much haste. When he begins to roast, he will walk about, and cannot get forth, for the fire stops him. When he is weary, he quenches his thirst by drinking the water, by cooling his heart, and the rest of his internal parts. The force of the Medicament loosens and cleans his belly, so that he grows empty. And when he his very hot, it roasts his inner parts. Continually moisten his head and heart with a Sponge. But when you see him run mad up and down, and to stumble (his heart then wants moisture), wherefore you take him away, and set him on the table to your guests, who will cry as you pull off his parts. And you shall eat him up before he is dead. Is this possible? Was this ever really done? Is there any way an animal can be cooked enough to be edible and yet still be alive, or is the movement just a reaction to the heat? I know that sometimes Chickens and such move after death, but wouldn’t cooking damage the body enough to kill the duck? [sup]I would never do this or condone doing this. Just wondering[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/2 "2003-01-30T02:29:55Z")
On that “Ripley’s Believe It Or Not” show in the 80’s hosted by Jack Palance and his daughter, they showed a fish being served that was seared on (I think) both sides that was still flopping about on the plate. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/3 "2003-01-30T03:01:17Z")
Eating live fish in Japan is fairly common. They can be served, as is or sometimes, they are so freshly cut up that they are still moving. ---
**Author:** ![lukaspriest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5a626/32.png) [@lukaspriest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lukaspriest)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/4 "2003-01-30T03:21:19Z")
same with squid in Korea…they’d chop them fresh and box them up in a to-go container with sauce, still squirming away… But as for a duck or a goose in the fashion described above…beats me. I’d sure lose my appetite watching the poor creature. Barbaric indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/5 "2003-01-30T05:12:53Z")
Almost twenty years ago, I remember watching a \* Faces of Death \* documentary in which a small monkey was trapped in a hole in the table. The diners seated around the table used small mallets to crack the moneky’s head open and then ate his brain raw. Whether he was a live or not, I couldn’t tell you, but the image is burned into my mind. ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/6 "2003-01-30T05:50:12Z")
Anybody see the thing on the old CBS late-night show about how the French eat ortelons? I’ll grant you they’re dead, but still! Pretty disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/7 "2003-01-30T06:03:29Z")
The quote is from a book called _Magia Naturalis_ by Giambattista della Porta . It isn’t a cookbook. > [@](#): > > The flesh of creatures killed by their enemies, especially such as they hate and fear, will be very tender. Zoroaster in his Geoponics says, that Sheep killed by Wolves, and bitten, their flesh will be more tender, and so the sweeter. Plutarch in Symposiacis gives the cause of it. Sheep’s flesh, he says, bitten by a Wolf becomes the sweeter, because the wolf by biting, makes the flesh more flaggy and tender. for the breath of the Wolf is so hot, that the hardest of bones will consume in his stomach, and melt. And for this cause, those things will the sooner corrupt, that the Wolf bites. It’s just nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/8 "2003-01-30T06:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **But when you see him run mad up and down, and to stumble (his heart then wants moisture), wherefore you take him away, and set him on the table** That’s ridiculous. If “he” can still move around, most of his muscles (meat) are still functioning and nowhere close to getting cooked. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/9 "2003-01-30T06:43:45Z")
Maybe it’s not cooked, just warmed up a bit. Plenty of people eat their dead cow still mooing after all. Not a common serving suggestion for _poultry_ these days, but they did things different back then. Of course, they’d probably be putting themselves at risk from all sorts of parasites and diseases, but I don’t think that was a big priority in mediaeval times. Oh, and it probably tasted repulsive too. (Raw goose? Bleeech!) ---
**Author:** ![Etherman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Etherman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Etherman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/10 "2003-01-30T06:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\*That’s ridiculous. If “he” can still move around, most of his muscles (meat) are still functioning and nowhere close to getting cooked. \*\* This suggests an experiment, and the answer. Remember the old experiments where scientists made corpses twitch with electricity? Run a high voltage current through a cooked chicken breast. Does it twitch and act like a muscle, or just sizzle and cook more? I am with **scr4** , in that I suspect the latter i/e cooked tissue is dead, and the fowl would not be walking if even half cooked( nerve impulses would not cause a reaction). Additionally, cooking is a chemical process. The proteins in the meat are substantially altered in the process. Think about the observable changes in a chicken breast from raw (pink and slimy) to cooked (white and stringy/grandular) Cooked muscle would be useless for movement. The only professionals I can think of to answer this are those who understand burns. Any burn specialists care to comment? On second thought, nevermind, I dont wanna think about it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/11 "2003-01-30T06:54:35Z")
Ive had live-cooked fish before. At a fancy chinese restaurant. The fish didn’t flop around but it’s moth was still moving. It was boiled IIRC, not seared, the head is wrapped in cold towel and the body gets boiled. Didn’t taste any different. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/12 "2003-01-30T07:11:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Almost twenty years ago, I remember watching a \* Faces of Death \* documentary in which a small monkey was trapped in a hole in the table. The diners seated around the table used small mallets to crack the moneky’s head open and then ate his brain raw. Whether he was a live or not, I couldn’t tell you, but the image is burned into my mind. \*\* That was almost certainly faked. The topic was discussed at length in the CCC thread [Monkey Brains](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62740&pagenumber=1) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/13 "2003-01-30T07:30:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aspidistra \* > \*\*Maybe it’s not cooked, just warmed up a bit. \*\* Could be, but how warm can the muscles be before they stop working? Think how poorly your body works when the body tempearture is a mere 10 degrees above normal. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/14 "2003-01-30T07:48:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Take a Duck, or a Goose, or some such lusty creature… Well, first off, anyone who thinks a duck or a goose is _LUSTY_ really needs to lie down with a cool cloth over their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/15 "2003-01-30T14:29:04Z")
Well, “lusty” has a different range of meanings in early modern English; here, I think the best modern gloss would be “lively.” As far as I can tell, it looks genuine from a linguistic perspective; I doubt that a modern faker, unless he or she were well versed in the history of English, would be able to come up with constructions such as “put Salt and Meum to them” or “his heart then wants moisture.” (Somebody _trying_ to fake an archaic style would usually throw in a bunch of -eth and -est endings in inappropriate places, and leave it at that.) However, I notice the title of the work this is taken from is “Natural Magic,” which suggests that it’s more likely to contain tall tales than actual recipes. My verdict: authentic document, probably fake story. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/16 "2003-01-31T03:45:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*That was almost certainly faked. The topic was discussed at length in the CCC thread [Monkey Brains](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62740&pagenumber=1) \*\* Oh, good! I’ve just been saved thousands of dollars in therapy from the childhood trauma of seeing this film. To whom should I make out the check to express my gratitude? ---
**Author:** ![Joyfulgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Joyfulgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joyfulgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-possible-warning-cruel-and-in-poor-taste/151496/17 "2003-01-31T06:30:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fretful Porpentine \* > \*\* > As far as I can tell, it looks genuine from a linguistic perspective; I doubt that a modern faker, unless he or she were well versed in the history of English, would be able to come up with constructions such as “put Salt and Meum to them” or “his heart then wants moisture.” \*\* The whole site looks pretty authentic to me too (In historical terms, not scientific), which is part of what made me curious. Awesome responses so far. Thanks! The more I consider it, the more I think that (a) The goose wasn’t cooked very well at all, and (b) People probably mistook muscle spasms for signs of life. I’m still curious as to how hot cooked muscles can be before they stop working. Wait, no I’m not. Joyfulgirl, trying to avoid being too macabre.