# Is this (proposed software transaction) legal? (Edited title) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912 "2007-10-16T16:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/1 "2007-10-16T16:01:19Z")
I’ve been looking to buy a used copy of Adobe Illustrator from someone. Adobe allows transfer of license, so that’s no problem. But I got the following message in my email this morning: > [@](#): > > I have adobe illustrator along with all the other programs in > the CS2 Creative Suite. I will gladly give you a copy of the whole software with a > two licenses for $50. And if you know anyone else who needs that software, just let > me know because I have a site license that my old company doesnt use anymore and can > support up to like 300 users…and they never expire. So yeah…tell your friends if > you want or something because that would be a great help. Is this legal? I might have thought that a “site license” requires that those using the software be employed by the company that has the license. But maybe not? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/2 "2007-10-16T16:05:34Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’ve been looking to buy a used copy of Adobe Illustrator from someone. Adobe allows transfer of license, so that’s no problem. But I got the following message in my email this morning: Is this legal? I might have thought that a “site license” requires that those using the software be employed by the company that has the license. But maybe not? -FrL- [/QUOTE] 99.9% likely this is not in compliance with the licencing agreement. I came across a scenario like this where someone still employed by the company in question was farming out company licences to various takers on ebay (in this case XP Pro VLK) I will comment no further because IIRC he has a trial coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/3 "2007-10-16T16:51:06Z")
Site licensed software usually doesn’t come on 300 installation disks – so you’re going to get a copy. It’s probably a copy of a corporate licensed version. Next, these are available on the internet if you know where to look. Any old Joe could download and burn one. Finally, corporate license keys are similarly available. You’re not likely to get a certificate of authenticity with the license, but just some printout that the same “some Joe” could make on his $79 printer. So… I’m guessing he’s not violating any companies’ license agreements, but rather selling you pirated software. ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/4 "2007-10-16T19:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I might have thought that a “site license” requires that those using the software be employed by the company that has the license. [/QUOTE] Most site licenses require the software only be used on a single “site,” where a site is usually defined as a single building, single campus with multiple buildings, or less commonly, multiple buildings at multiple locations of a single company. You don’t qualify for any of those, even if the seller had a legitimate site license (which, like **Balthisar** suggests, probably isn’t the case). ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/5 "2007-10-16T19:52:05Z")
It sounds skeevy to me, too, Frylock. Hey, if you don’t mind the hijack, what are you planning on using it for? I broke down last year and bought my own copy so I could draw [cartoons](http://spamusement.wetpaint.com/page/PonderThis). I must admit that it totally rocks for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/6 "2007-10-16T20:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] I’ve been looking to buy a used copy of Adobe Illustrator from someone. [/QUOTE] A neat trick that’s easy to exploit (and is completely legal) is to hike over to your local community college, sign up for a single class, and get a student ID. My local college charges $26 per unit, plus a $27 student services fee (which includes the ID), so for a grand total of $53 dollars, I get a year long (if you get the ID at the beginning of the year for winter classes) “discount card” for all my software purchases. And you don’t even have to buy the software at the college store. You can buy it at any place that sells academic versions of the software, including online stores. $190 for Adobe Illustrator CS3 Academic version vs. $600 for the normal retail version is quite a discount. And yes, they are exactly the same version. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/7 "2007-10-16T20:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=mikews99] A neat trick that’s easy to exploit (and is completely legal) is to hike over to your local community college, sign up for a single class, and get a student ID. My local college charges $26 per unit, plus a $27 student services fee (which includes the ID), so for a grand total of $53 dollars, I get a year long (if you get the ID at the beginning of the year for winter classes) “discount card” for all my software purchases. And you don’t even have to buy the software at the college store. You can buy it at any place that sells academic versions of the software, including online stores. $190 for Adobe Illustrator CS3 Academic version vs. $600 for the normal retail version is quite a discount. And yes, they are exactly the same version. [/QUOTE] The problem with this is, the Academic license doesn’t allow use for commercial purposes. My wife thinks she could well use the program commercially. (Like for designing t-shirts and cards and things like that.) But there’s no way we can do $600. ☹ So I was hoping to buy a used copy of an old version for cheap. That’s starting to look unlikely as well. ☹☹ -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/8 "2007-10-17T00:01:25Z")
Then you’ll have to look for alternatives. CorelDraw can be had for fairly cheap and is nearly as good as AI. There are a few open source alternatives, but none of them are as easy to use. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_vector_graphics_editors) has a comparison table you can peruse for alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/9 "2007-10-17T00:30:51Z")
[QUOTE=mikews99] Then you’ll have to look for alternatives. CorelDraw can be had for fairly cheap and is nearly as good as AI. There are a few open source alternatives, but none of them are as easy to use. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_vector_graphics_editors) has a comparison table you can peruse for alternatives. [/QUOTE] My wife would strongly prefer Illustrator. It is for that reason that we, each of us being albeit very near our thirtieth birthdays, have nevertheless decided to attempt to mooch off our parents. 🙂 We’re going to ask for it for Christmas. Thanks for everyone’s help. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/10 "2007-10-17T00:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=mikews99] A neat trick that’s easy to exploit (and is completely legal) is to hike over to your local community college, sign up for a single class, and get a student ID.\ [/QUOTE] Good idea, but it doesn’t always work. For example, when I bought the student version of MatLab, they made me prove I was a full time student. ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/11 "2007-10-17T00:48:23Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] they made me prove I was a full time student. [/QUOTE] Depends on the retailer. Some will require you to be a “full time student” (however they define it), some won’t care. ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/12 "2007-10-17T01:10:11Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] My wife would strongly prefer Illustrator. [/QUOTE] You could always buy AI 10 for [about $100](http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Illustrator-10-0/dp/B00005QVPY) and then [upgrade](http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=srch1&Ntt=adobe+illustrator+upgrade&N=0&Dx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&D=adobe+illustrator+upgrade&Ntk=All&product_code=345981). Total cost: $280. Not much more than the student ID + academic version cost. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/13 "2007-10-17T13:53:45Z")
The problem with trying to buy used copies is upgrade licenses, and you seem like you’re trying to live by the letter of the agreements. When you purchase a discounted “upgrade” copy, there’s usually language that stipulates that you can’t give away or sell the previous copy, that the upgrade is, in fact, an “upgrade” and not a replacement. For example, I think that the upgrade version of Windows XP requires you to insert an earlier version of a Windows CD during the install, to confirm that you’re upgrading rather than replacing. Sure, people sell off old versions all the time, but do you want to risk eternal hellfire that you’re violating their upgrade license agreement? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/14 "2007-10-17T16:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Is this legal? I might have thought that a “site license” requires that those using the software be employed by the company that has the license. [/QUOTE] A cursory read of the Adobe EULAS at [http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/](http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/) says to me it’s illegal. In addition, the company purchased the site license. This guy is defrauding his employer by selling something he does not own; his employer has the license. Of course, IANAL and ymmv. ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-proposed-software-transaction-legal-edited-title/422912/15 "2007-10-17T18:21:03Z")
Some software companies offer **competitive upgrades**. That is if you own a competitor’s product, they will give you a deal to switch brands. The vendor will make you prove you really do own the competing brand (usually, all they require is a copy of the title page of the competitor’s user’s manual). I have realized discounts between $100-$200 in doing this.