# Is this racial profiling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423 "2011-08-28T22:23:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/21 "2011-08-29T01:30:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yep, agreed entirely. How anyone could think this incident must have been a case of racial profiling is beyond me (well, it’s not really, given that I know how some people think, but you know what I mean). Some people will reach for anything to hang their “racism is everywhere” hat on. > > Dio, here’s a challenge: come up with an argument for why this incident must have involved racial profiling that does not exhibit the same thinking used in most arguments for the existence of god. So far you’ve got “it must have been, that’s the only possible explanation,” which is a faith-based position that fails this challenge. Rand, I don’t think we can know for sure (since this would require mind reading), but after looking at a picture of the guy, I think it’s certainly reasonable to say it’s likely. Guy that is not doing ANYTHING that a reasonable person could consider as suspicious behavior, but happens to look like he might have middle eastern or north african background, is singled out and questioned? I think it’s very likely that his appearance had something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/22 "2011-08-29T01:45:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Dio, here’s a challenge: come up with an argument for why this incident must have involved racial profiling that does not exhibit the same thinking used in most arguments for the existence of god. Considering that racial profiling _actually exists_, there’s no comparison. In order for your comparison to work, gods would have to be a frequent and well known phenomenon and we’d only be arguing over the existence of a _particular_ god. Not “are gods real”, but “is Vurgo the Destroyer real, Zeus hired us yesterday to find out”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/23 "2011-08-29T01:51:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yep, agreed entirely. How anyone could think this incident must have been a case of racial profiling is beyond me (well, it’s not really, given that I know how some people think, but you know what I mean). Some people will reach for anything to hang their “racism is everywhere” hat on. > > Dio, here’s a challenge: come up with an argument for why this incident must have involved racial profiling that does not exhibit the same thinking used in most arguments for the existence of god. So far you’ve got “it must have been, that’s the only possible explanation,” which is a faith-based position that fails this challenge. Because there is no other element which would provoke fear. That was easy, ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/24 "2011-08-29T02:23:03Z")
Yes it was racial profiling. A white person reading that book would not have pinged the flight attendant’s terrorist radar. She made an assumption based on looks. He did not look white. He had a beard. That is proof . It is beyond me how someone can not see what is so blatant and obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/25 "2011-08-29T02:39:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because there is no other element which would provoke fear. That was easy, Just like there must have been something that created the universe, right9. Without god, there wouldn’t even bve a space for nothingness to exist. I’m totally fine with you holding faith-based positions, just at least acknowledge that that is what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/26 "2011-08-29T02:55:08Z")
I have a very difficult time believing that if he’d been white he’d have been treated this way. As for those who ask why a black man would be affected since he wasn’t Arab or Muslim, I’d merely point out that many blacks are Muslims and, also Arabs(Somalia and the Sudan). Moreover, it’s easy for people to make bad assumptions about people’s ethnic background based on their physical appearance. I’ve been mistaken for being Hispanic or Arab despite being Iranian and lets not forget that poor Brazilian guy shot to death by London police officers who thought he was Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/27 "2011-08-29T02:55:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Just like there must have been something that created the universe, right. No, not like that at all. There does not have to be something that “created” the universe. There does have to be something that caused this incident. The only element in play that would cause fear was his skin color. The book alone would have not drawn any notice if Miranda Cosgrove was reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/28 "2011-08-29T02:56:31Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Just like there must have been something that created the universe, right9. Without god, there wouldn’t even bve a space for nothingness to exist. The comparison is still silly. Are you trying to claim that racial profiling doesn’t exist, that it violates physical laws? And the religious idea itself is stupid, as has often been pointed out; pushing the problems of origin back as step solves nothing, and if the universe required a place to come into begin, so did “god”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/29 "2011-08-29T03:00:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Of course it has to do with his appearance. I don’t know why so many people are so invested in trying to deny racial profiling exists. I’m not sure why you have decided to twist my words to say something that I have not said and would not say. I clearly noted that his skin color might have played a role in the situation. I have simply further noted that it was not a necessary component. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How anyone could think this incident must have been a case of racial profiling is beyond me. . . . This is as silly a comment as the absolute declarations of Dio and gonzo and Der Trihs. While the the “must” aspect is open to question, Mr. Vane’s appearance could certainly have triggered (or contributed to) the fears of the flight attendant. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Because there is no other element which would provoke fear. That was easy, I’m sorry, but this is just nonsense. A passenger carrying an extra bag who makes a point of preventing an attendant from handling it is easily as much a source of fear. Irrational, perhaps, but no more necessary than his appearance. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/30 "2011-08-29T03:18:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Yes it was racial profiling. A white person reading that book would not have pinged the flight attendant’s terrorist radar. She made an assumption based on looks. He did not look white. He had a beard. That is proof . > It is beyond me how someone can not see what is so blatant and obvious. That being said, it sounds like the cops they called just rolled their eyes at the flight attendant’s claims (insofar as they are allowed to do so). There was stupid, but at least it didn’t spread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/31 "2011-08-29T03:30:09Z")
I agree, I think it was the flight attendent freaking out and security just needing to follow protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/32 "2011-08-29T03:31:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m sorry, but this is just nonsense. > A passenger carrying an extra bag who makes a point of preventing an attendant from handling it is easily as much a source of fear. Irrational, perhaps, but no more necessary than his appearance. This happens on every flight. I’m not buying that, without the man’s physical appearance, it would have triggered any fear. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/33 "2011-08-29T03:34:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This happens on every flight. I’m not buying that, without the man’s physical appearance, it would have triggered any fear. It happens all the time. “Shall I put this in the overhead for you?” “No, I’ll put it under the seat.” Jesus, it’s not like he freaked out a clutched it to his chest while screaming “Don’t touch my precious!” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/34 "2011-08-29T03:35:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This happens on every flight. I’m not buying that, without the man’s physical appearance, it would have triggered any fear. Really? On every flight, there is at least one passenger carrying multiple bags who makes a point to refuse to let a fight attendant touch any of them? I don’t deny the possibility of ethnic prejudice, but your whole claim eliminating any other possibility is nothing more than a feeling you have. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/35 "2011-08-29T03:37:25Z")
I personally have my doubts that this was a racial issue. It sounds more like a case of security hysteria (“Omigod, he’s gathering information about airplanes!”). ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/36 "2011-08-29T03:45:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Yes it was racial profiling. A white person reading that book would not have pinged the flight attendant’s terrorist radar. She made an assumption based on looks. He did not look white. He had a beard. That is proof . > It is beyond me how someone can not see what is so blatant and obvious. You’re kinda conveniently leaving out the part about how he refused to let a flight attendent touch his bag… FWIW, it seems that racism (rather than profiling) on the part of the flight attendant may (not definitively did) have played a role in the police being called, but the police seem to have behaved entirely appropriately ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/37 "2011-08-29T04:14:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? On every flight, there is at least one passenger carrying multiple bags who makes a point to refuse to let a fight attendant touch any of them? Yeah, pretty much, though “refuse,” and “make a point” are a too strong a characterization here. It wasn’t like she was insisting and he was adamantly refusing. > [@](#): > > I don’t deny the possibility of ethnic prejudice, but your whole claim eliminating any other possibility is nothing more than a feeling you have. In my opinion, the appearance alone, would not have been enough, but his appearance made the flight attendant read way too much into the other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/38 "2011-08-29T04:17:21Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You’re kinda conveniently leaving out the part about how he refused to let a flight attendent touch his bag… I disagree with this characterization. She asked him if she wanted him to stow it overhead, he said he preferred to put it under his seat. he wasn’t saying “don’t touch my bag.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/39 "2011-08-29T07:44:55Z")
After seeing his picture, this looks to me like a case of beardal profiling. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/40 "2011-08-29T12:00:02Z")
Initially I was going to say “no” until I looked at the gentleman in question. Now I’m going to have to enter in a resounding “yes”. That attendant is an idiot and should be fired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423.md?page=3)