# Is this racial profiling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423 "2011-08-28T22:23:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/41 "2011-08-29T13:20:59Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Initially I was going to say “no” until I looked at the gentleman in question. Now I’m going to have to enter in a resounding “yes”. That attendant is an idiot and should be fired. So based on the flight attendant’s actions it wasn’t racial profiling _until you saw the skin color of the man singled out_, and then it was. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? If a white guy is going through security and gets pulled aside for further questioning, and then the brown guy right behind him also gets pulled aside, all other things being equal, you can’t scream “racial profiling!” at the second one. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/42 "2011-08-29T13:31:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This is as silly a comment as the absolute declarations of Dio and gonzo and Der Trihs. While the the “must” aspect is open to question, Mr. Vane’s appearance could certainly have triggered (or contributed to) the fears of the flight attendant. :rolleyes: Please read for comprehension before responding. You and I are saying the same thing. I said it’s stupid for Dio to believe there must have been racial profiling involved, and I of course agree that it is possible it was involved. Also, Dio, your argument from lack of imagination still utterly fails. You are saying “it must have been racial profiling because I can’t imagine any other reason.” Well, out here in the real world, we are free to do things that you can’t imagine. On this issue you are a bible-thumper, spreading the gospel of “racism is everywhere” with no regard to the existence of actual evidence for that position. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/43 "2011-08-29T13:54:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > this guy should sue the airline into bankruptcy. How close is United to bankruptcy prior to Mr Gill pursuing his law suit? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/44 "2011-08-29T14:27:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > :rolleyes: Please read for comprehension before responding. You and I are saying the same thing. I said it’s stupid for Dio to believe there must have been racial profiling involved, and I of course agree that it is possible it was involved. > > Also, Dio, your argument from lack of imagination still utterly fails. You are saying “it must have been racial profiling because I can’t imagine any other reason.” Well, out here in the real world, we are free to do things that you can’t imagine. On this issue you are a bible-thumper, spreading the gospel of “racism is everywhere” with no regard to the existence of actual evidence for that position. You are, once again, imagining things about my attitudes and posting history. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/45 "2011-08-29T14:46:42Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > So based on the flight attendant’s actions it wasn’t racial profiling _until you saw the skin color of the man singled out_, and then it was. Do you realize how ridiculous that is? > > If a white guy is going through security and gets pulled aside for further questioning, and then the brown guy right behind him also gets pulled aside, all other things being equal, you can’t scream “racial profiling!” at the second one. Reading the article gave some credence to the idea the the FA was made nervous by a guy reading about planes, which is absurd in an of itself. The question though was whether or not her disproportionate response was racially motivated. Mr. Gilbert is African American, but could also pass for North African/ Arabic/ Egyptian. He also wears a short, neat full beard. Given those circumstances I think it WAS racial profiling. Nobody freaks out over a person reading a book about _bi-planes_ for Og’s sake. He is an American citizen, traveling with proper identification and tickets, and yet this bearded, tan- skinned man was singled out for “reading a book about planes”. Even the police thought it was ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/46 "2011-08-29T15:08:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > A passenger carrying an extra bag who makes a point of preventing an attendant from handling it is easily as much a source of fear. > [@bengangmo](#): > > You’re kinda conveniently leaving out the part about how he refused to let a flight attendent touch his bag… He did not “make a point of preventing” her from doing anything. The only thing he “refused,” to a normal reading, is an inconsequential offer of assistance. She asked if she could stow his “fanny pack” for him. > [@Vance Gilbert](#): > > I replied to her that I’d be fine just stuffing it next to my back-pack under the seat in front of me as it contained my wallet etc and that I’d rather have it near. She seemed fine with that resolution. All that was done without consternation or belligerence, and I thought nothing of it. Notice that he has another, larger bag under the seat that she did not say anything about or attempt to handle. Presumably Gilbert and both these bags went through standard airport security to get to that point. It doesn’t make _any sense_ for the fanny pack, or his wanting to hang on to it, to be a “source of fear.” Does this attendant call the police on women passengers who want to keep their purses close at hand during a flight? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/47 "2011-08-29T15:15:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Rand, I don’t think we can know for sure (since this would require mind reading), but after looking at a picture of the guy, I think it’s certainly reasonable to say it’s likely. Guy that is not doing ANYTHING that a reasonable person could consider as suspicious behavior, but happens to look like he might have middle eastern or north african background, is singled out and questioned? I think it’s very likely that his appearance had something to do with it. People get singled out at airports all the time, even 6 yr old white kids. > **[Travel Tips | Transportation Security Administration](https://www.tsa.gov/travel/travel-tips)** > > The TSA Travel Tips page provides essential guidance for air travelers, covering topics such as packing smart, understanding security screening procedures, and preparing for travel with special items like medications or firearms. But we so want to believe that this poor bloke was discriminated against. Uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/48 "2011-08-29T15:17:46Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You’re kinda conveniently leaving out the part about how he refused to let a flight attendent touch his bag… > FWIW, it seems that racism (rather than profiling) on the part of the flight attendant may (not definitively did) have played a role in the police being called, but the police seem to have behaved entirely appropriately Reread it. That did not happen. She asked if he wanted to put it in the overhead and he took option B. Push it under his seat. There was no altercation over that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/49 "2011-08-29T15:20:37Z")
Your link is in no way analogous to the topic at hand. Planes do not get held up because a white kid is reading a book about bi-planes. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/50 "2011-08-29T15:27:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Your link is in no way analogous to the topic at hand. Planes do not get held up because a white kid is reading a book about bi-planes. Your woo woo is in no way analogous to this topic either. You simply do not know yet you are asserting with no proof that this particular incident was a race issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/51 "2011-08-29T15:32:17Z")
I’m curious to see what the airline’s official response is going to be. Regardless of whether this was racial profiling or not, it’s definitely _something_ absurd. I mean, even if they try to claim that it was solely because of his reading material, that still pegs out the WTF meter. Hey, here’s an experiment: My mom (a 70-year-old white woman) is flying out to visit me next week. I’ll ask her to bring a book on aviation, and see if she gets any reaction at all to it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/52 "2011-08-29T15:36:27Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Your woo woo is in no way analogous to this topic either. You simply do not know yet you are asserting with no proof that this particular incident was a race issue. There is no other plausible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/53 "2011-08-29T15:38:47Z")
Hey, somebody I know had a book about Afghanistan and the Taliban on a plane a while back. I wonder why she didn’t get questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/54 "2011-08-29T15:41:27Z")
A white woman could be reading a book called _Hijacking Planes for Dummies_ and not get bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/55 "2011-08-29T15:43:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no other plausible explanation. Diogenes, has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, there are people out there smarter than you? They may have been able to come up with a differing point of view from yours, and that even further out, they may be the correct one. In fact, some have even been offered here. Yet you refuse to see the other side of the coin. That is eerily similar to religious fervor. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/56 "2011-08-29T16:02:00Z")
No other plausible explanation has been offered up. The suggestion that it was the book alone, or that it was because he preferred to put his fanny pack under his seat rather than stow it overhead are laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/57 "2011-08-29T17:36:36Z")
Dio, simply repeating your argument from lack of imagination doesn’t strengthen it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/58 "2011-08-29T17:39:05Z")
It doesn’t need strengthening. It’s already airtight. You also don’t seem to know much about critical thinking, since you appear to be completely unaware that you don’t have to keep “imagining” explanations once you’ve already got one that’s perfectly adequate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/59 "2011-08-29T18:10:48Z")
Dio, take a deep breath and stop and think for a minute about what you’re saying. If the only possible explanation why Gilbert was questioned was his race then that means there are no possible non-racial reasons for being questioned. And if there’s no non-racial reason why a person would be questioned, then that would mean no white person would ever be questioned by the police. And are you going to claim that no white person has ever been questioned by the police? It’s one thing to say that racial profiling is the most likely explanation. But when you claim racial profiling is the only possible explanation, you’ve put yourself into an untenable position. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423/60 "2011-08-29T18:13:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Dio, take a deep breath and stop and think for a minute about what you’re saying. > > If the only possible explanation why Gilbert was questioned was his race then that means there are no possible non-racial reasons for being questioned. > > And if there’s no non-racial reason why a person would be questioned, then that would mean no white person would ever be questioned by the police. > > And are you going to claim that no white person has ever been questioned by the police? > > It’s one thing to say that racial profiling is the most likely explanation. But when you claim racial profiling is the only possible explanation, you’ve put yourself into an untenable position. I’m not saying any of that. I’m not generalizing anything, just talking about the specifics of this one case. In this one case, no other element would have caused fear but his physical appearance. No white person reading a book on bi-planes would have caused hysterical terror in a flight attendant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-this-racial-profiling/594423.md?page=4)