So, is she going to dig up the studies on voice/accent recognition and appeal her suspension?
(And is the story reported in the local paper and does it have internet presence so we can all write nasty letters to the editor? NO harrassment of individuals is suggested or encouraged.)
The people who suspended your friend are idiots. She should appeal her suspension vigorously.
I don’t disagree with your assessment, but I can understand the girl’s offense. I’ve heard many people denigrate neighborhoods that are not bad at all. They just happened to be predominately black. On the other side, I had a person tell me that a neighborhood couldn’t be all that bad because it was predominately white. So sometimes racism does enter into assessments of neighborhoods. That girl was probably hypersensitive to those kinds of remarks.
Someone I worked with once told me that the town I used to live close to, South Orange, NJ, was the “hood”. I got so angry I wanted to kick him.
I feel for you. It must suck to have someone make assumptions like that.
Unfortunately, the percerption of neighborhood quality based on the ethnic or racial composition of its inhabitants seems to be rather entrenched in America, among many races and ethnic groups, if a recent study is any indication. According to the article, which appeared in Social Psychology Quarterly and is summarized on this website:
So, if a neighborhood has a large proportion of black residents, then whites, other ethnic groups like Hispanics, and even blacks themselves are more likely to perceive the neighborhood as rundown and disordered, even if it is not. It’s a rather sad reflection on the way we conceive and preconceive the world.
The original article can be viewed in its entirety here (pdf).
I call bullshit. You don’t know anything about the people or the full context or tone in which she said what she said. I’m not saying she is racist, but to make the pronouncement you (and others) have made is presumptuous.
A recap:
(my bolding)
First, the fact that there were several complaints made by people who have more information than us probably had a lot to do with her being suspended.
Second, if she delivered this information unprovoked, it would be worse than if her response was to a direct question. There is a difference. If the reporter asked her what happened, and she responded by stating that he sounded black, then what she said may have had racist undertones.
Third. I am a little troubled by the way she phrased her comment.
There is a important difference between saying “sounded like an AA” and “sounded AA”. It is a subtle, but important distinction. For example, I am black. If someone were describing me, which of the following seems less flattering:
- He is black
- He is a black
The latter tends to convey many generalizations about black people that the first doesn’t. I’m not saying she was doing this, just that her wording seems odd. Unless the full quote was “African-American man …”
All I saying is that without more information, its hard to tell whether the suspension was justified. Maybe this person has some history that factored in to her supervisor’s decision. To automatically assume this is an example of people overreacting cannot be justified solely on the information given. Or, is this just an example of people feeling one knee jerk reaction deserving another?
This doesn’t make sense to me. “African American” is different than “black”. I admit that “like a black” carries a negative connation, but that’s not what she said.
Is it offensive to say, “He sounds like an American” versus “He sounds American”? I think you’re reaching if you say it is.
Now, although I usually can detect whether someone is black or not based on their voice, I’m kind of curious about how the OP’s friend came to her assessment. Was it what he said? Or was it the quality of his voice? Either of these is subject to error, but I think the latter judgement is riskier.
I can kind of understand her supervisors (as well as the police) being unhappy with what she said. What if the investigation reveals that the caller was actually a white guy? The black folks in the community might feel like someone was a little hasty in pointing the finger at them. Such a PR gaff wouldn’t be good for City Hall.
I don’t think she should be suspended or anything, but I do think she probably should have left that bit out about how the caller sounded when talking to the press.
Well, previous posts in this thread have given good references for you to follow up.
That’d be a mistake on the level of, ohhh, the Oklahoma bomb?
If shoved in front of a mic with no preparation, why should they? (See my earlier comment) If you want PR, put a PR person in front of the mic.
First, without knowing more about her, the situation, and the town she’s in, I don’t think you can make a case that her diction alone is a red flag. I just thought it was something worth mentioning that many people don’t think about.
Second, American and African-American are different. One is a nationality, the other is a race of people that has been oppressed and degraded with language for centuries. The two are not analogous. Now, if this took place in an area of the world where being American was considered “bad”, then you would have a point.
What? My question wasn’t, “How are people able to tell if a person sounds black?” Rather it was, “How did the OP’s friend conclude that this person sounded black?”
As far as I know, pinkfreud has not provided an answer to this question.
A person who speaks AAVE sounds black. But someone like James Earl Jones sounds black, too, and he usually doesn’t speak AAVE. So to me, telling me someone sounds black does not give me much to go on. It’s like saying someone sounds white. Well, does he sound like Jeff Foxworthy? Or George Plimpton?
Maybe I’m dense, but I don’t understand the relevance of this remark. Care to clarify?
Why should they do what? Your whole post has confused me.
If the caller had been white, do you think the OP’s friend (who I know is a full-blooded Cherokee and is therefore immune to charges of bias and racism) would have said “He sounded like a white guy”. What about if the caller sounded like a full-blooded Cherokee? Why is the race of the guy important here? It’s not like they’ll be able to find the guy quicker knowing that he “sounded” like an entire race of people.
In case you didn’t notice, I do NOT think she should have gotten in trouble. But I do understand why her supervisors felt uncomfortable with what she said.
‘African-American’ isn’t a universal derscription of race. It’s a very specific American term.
I’m sorry, but that ship isn’t sailing with me. “My friend is an African American” is not the same thing as saying (diction-wise) as “My friend is a black”. The former is ok. The latter is weird.
There is no logic explaining the difference, but oppression, history, and all that jazz doesn’t figure into it all.
In the context given, ‘because he/she sounded that way’ certainly seems sufficient to me. Go through the whole thread, with quotes, if you dispute this.
Initially, the blame for the Oklahoma bomb was placed firmly with Islamist terrorism.
If you’re dealing with a lone nut, then their race is important, just as their gender, or hair colour, or whatever.
Of course, they might have felt uncomfortable. People who want to believe we live in a colourblind world dislike anything that contradicts this.
Seeing as how I am a major participant in one of the linked threads, I don’t need to be convinced of anything, GorillaMan. I know and fully believe in the phenomonom of linguistic profiling. However, just as I know that simply saying that someone looks black does not provide a clear picture of that person, neither does saying that a person sounds black give a clear “idea” of how that person sounded. Michael Rappaport sounds black to some ears. Yet his “black” voice is different from, say, James Earl Jones.
I don’t think she should have listed all the reasons why she thinks the guy is black in her interview. I’m just saying I’m curious what clues she’s going on.
I agree. But I wince when I’m watching the news and someone mentions the race (and only the race) of an at-large suspect, as if this is going to help the general populace find him. “We don’t have a full description of the suspect yet, but we do know that he’s a black male, age 20-25, and between 150-200 lbs.” Do they ever catch criminals by issuing this kind of information?
Knowing the caller sounded black is useful for the detectives on the case, but it’s unnecessary information for the TV viewer. But if you’re thrust into the lime light, you’re not going to always have the presence of mind to know what’s trivial and non-trivial information. That’s why I don’t blame the OP’s friend.
What would you propose they announce on the news? “There was this human that robbed the bank today. Please call CrimeStoppers if you have any information on this crime…”
Skin color is critical to identifying a suspect as much as any other identifying marks, sex, and speech patterns. And yes, they do catch criminals with that kind of information. For example, look at the Most Wanted Criminals or Cold Case Files show as a classic example. These are “dead end” investigation that when the info is publicized via the “media”, Uncle George or Aunt Suzie puts two and two together and calls the FBI. Suddenly, a dead case is now a solved crime.
So this Mr. Baugh, he can tell us exactly what a full-blooded Cherokee sounds like.
Right? :rolleyes:
Cause, if he cannot, then his study ( Stanford University or no Stanford University ) is irrelevant. Then again, perhaps this particular person described in the OP falls within that 20% that disproves his theory completely.
I’d love to read it. Cite please? 
Personal tale: I met a man last year. He sounded for all the world like a man from Amsterdam. In fact, he sounded like a man from Amsterdam and he lived in Amsterdam.
Funny…he was born and bred in Belfast, Northern Ireland and had moved to Amsterdam only a few years ago. His accent had shifted radically.
Cartooniverse
America’s Most Wanted usually present a mug shot or an artist’s depiction to go along with the description. They also give a name or a list of aliases that will help in identification. They don’t usually say, “The suspect is a black man. Now let’s go to commercial.”
If you’re an innocent black man in a town with a small black population, will it make you feel good to know that the news reporter has just described on you the 6:00 news? If the whole town is black, will it be helpful to describe the suspect as a “black man”?
Sorry to continue the hijack, but it also pisses me off when they just say “black male” because “black” is not a very good description of skin color. A black man could range in skin tones from Julian Bond’s shade all the way to Wesley Snipes. I’m a black woman but I’m visually a yellow woman. It bugs me that people don’t give as much care to describe skin tone as they do hair color. If we were truly a colorblind society, that’s exactly what we would do.
“The suspect is a chocolate-colored man.”
That would be much more precise than saying he’s “black”, and would aid police in rounding up the best folks for the line-up.
Yes, people will notice a person matching that discription acting suspicously and report them to the authories where they might have just wondered what that person was doing and moved on. It’s also nice for the populace not to have to worry about everyone possibly being armed and dangerous, but rather as narrow a set of people as possible.
Which would you prefer?:
“There’s a serial killer loose in Springfield.”
“There’s a serial killer loose in Springfield who is caucasian with large feet and a strange hairdo.”
I’d like the second so I don’t freak out when Karl and Lenny stumble out of the alley next to Moe’s.
Welll… having a little talk with her about what sort of things are Ok to say to the press- that’s justified. Public employees are not supposed to blurt things out to the press.
A one week suspension without pay? That’s wrong, wrong, wrong.
The best way to do it is to have her tribe’s attorney make a little call and mention that he thinks that if she hadn’t been a “Indian”, she wouldn’t have been treated so harshly. That will have those sanctimonious asshats scrambling like mad to apologize and give her her pay back.
I’m not Tom, but here’s a cite
- Purnell, T., Idsardi, W., & Baugh, J. 1999. Perceptual and phonetic experiments on American English dialect identification. Journal of Language and Social Psychology 18 (1). *